[Laner]

BloodJoker, on Dec 25, 2012 - 1:00 AM, said:

anyone here ever tried 9 dragons? the game has 240 lvls and after lvl 70ish quests pretty much stop and at lvl 100 you get like 0.04% exp for a kill. now that my friends was a grind fest... i got past 180 3 times (mostly cuz i had no life) anything less demanding than that is nothing like a grind fest if you ask me young lads. *relights my wooden pipe and ponders of the old days...*

Hahaha really? I played that game for a bit, only to level 30 or so and got bored. I never heard of a game that had more than 200 levels, and the fact that quest stops at 70, that sounds horrible.

I agree with everyone before me, saying Tera is definitely not a grindfest. I can't remember a time in Tera where I didn't have quests to do, everyone reaches 60 pretty fast. Blade and soul is like Tera in this way too, and BnS max level is only 45, so ...
But I don't rush to end-game like other people do, I like to enjoy the lower levels too.

Some of the grindiest games I remember were MapleStory, Requiem Online, Aion...
Yea definitely the older games were very grindy. This game is next gen, so it won't compare at all to those old grindfest games.

[Tae-yeon]

*high five* to the older MMO gamers who know what a grindfest is. i remember when you lost more xp when you died once then you gained in a week of playing. where you fought for a solid week just a ridiculous 10% of a level. Blade & Soul is definitely not a grindfest. don't worry so much over nothing. so you have to a moment when you ran out of quests and are stuck between the next prime level for the next stretch of questing, don't freak out..just go kick some mob butt for practice and some random loot. ^_^ its not that bad.

[Daithi]

nobody of you know what is grindfest if you never played Tibia...

[Janshi]

Zenek, on Dec 24, 2012 - 9:11 PM, said:

Btw. anybody from KR server can say how much RNG base is B&S?

Weapons:
- Mostly stat range AP wise, some weapons can drop in 5 different AP Versions
- Gemsockets random (mostly between 1-3); obviously 1 socket drop is shit
- green effect (like chi leech or crit buff) random; some weapons can have 6 different possible effects; obviously everyone would want chi leech


Bo-Pae:
Have a primary and a secondary stat. Endgame bo-pae have fix primary stats and random secondary stat.
Both primary stat and secondary stat aren´t fixed; they have stat range.


There is quite a bit RNG in BnS.
It took me for example 2 weeks of intensive farming in dbsh to get my perfect bsh-bo-pae set for PvP and i was lucky. It took me 50 runs to get my first sin weapon. Well, still, compared with other mmos the rng isn´t so extreme.

[foxlight713]

תומר 智能, on Aug 14, 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

I hated the grindfest in Tera, and how repetitive the quests are. For those that played the game, is it the same?

I searched the forums, but I do apologize if I missed a thread discussing this.

Thanks,
Tomer

This has probably already been answered but the use of the word Grindfest is miss used in context to repetitive quests. While the op may have been grinding that grind was broken up among I would imagine daily repeatable quests in terra so it would feel less like a grind which can be refereed to a quest grinding. To me a Grindfest refers to the repetitive task of killing mobs for no purpose other than to gather enough exp to get to the next level with out anything to break up the over arching goal with smaller more manageable goals, where in case daily repeatable quests are suppose to aliviate this issue giving the player smaller more manageable goals to achieve.

I have a feeling that BnS endgame will probably get no more grindy than end game in WoW in recent years. Log on do daily quests, do daily dungons, do daily battleground, raid if it was a raid day then log off, point in case there was always something to do. In addition I have a feeling from experience from playing a little bit on a BnS Pserver that I highly dought you will run out of things to do while leveling.

[Zenek]

JemL, on Dec 25, 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

LOL TERA GRINDFEST?

My first answer for this question would be - yes.

After think about it... If I would invest same amount of time in to Tera, as I put in to L2 I would make everything max tier + in 1-2 weeks. There is other issue - Tera grind is insane boring and RNG based. L2 was not boring during lvl, Farm items also was not boring - amount of PvP during it almost completly removed boring factor from it. But Tera... that is pure gring + RNG what make it simply not enjoyable. Even if L2 was much more grind based game - it was much more fun. Honestly, When I played L2 I didn't even think where is PvE and where is PvP.

Janshi, on Dec 25, 2012 - 3:31 AM, said:

...
Well, still, compared with other mmos the rng isn´t so extreme.

Thx for answer.

But from your description it seems as extreme - at last for someone from oldschool MMO, where amount of RNG has not been that annoy.

This post has been edited by Zenek: Dec 25, 2012 - 7:23 AM

[BrandX]

Grindfest will mean different things to different people.

I wouldn't call TERA a grindfest, because after the early levels, you can start going on different quest lines that aren't part of the storyline quest lines. In fact, in TERA, I've actually outleveled and missed part of the storyline quests as I didn't realize I was skipping parts :p But I was also able to ignore a map on one character and do it on another. To me, that stops a MMO from feeling like a grindfest, because I'm not repeating the same content over and over.

If I was going to point you to a MMO that felt like a grindfest, I'd point you to the MMO I'm playing currently, TOR. If it wasn't for the storyline quests, I'd be running the exact same quest lines for each fraction. It really is a go here, do these quests, then move onto the next area.

Truthfully, for TOR I don't see that changing. Not sure how B&S handles it though.

[Radii]

Tera felt grindy yes but it didn't matter because it was action based. Each single mob/boss fight was different.

[Laner]

Zenek, on Dec 25, 2012 - 7:22 AM, said:

My first answer for this question would be - yes.

After think about it... If I would invest same amount of time in to Tera, as I put in to L2 I would make everything max tier + in 1-2 weeks. There is other issue - Tera grind is insane boring and RNG based. L2 was not boring during lvl, Farm items also was not boring - amount of PvP during it almost completly removed boring factor from it. But Tera... that is pure gring + RNG what make it simply not enjoyable. Even if L2 was much more grind based game - it was much more fun. Honestly, When I played L2 I didn't even think where is PvE and where is PvP.



Thx for answer.

But from your description it seems as extreme - at last for someone from oldschool MMO, where amount of RNG has not been that annoy.

Just sounds like Tera wasn't your kind of game then. You are very loyal to L2.
But Tera is still not a grindfest. It was simply boring to you. To me it wasn't boring, it had a completely different combat system, and it felt interesting and new while I was leveling up. I guess what it is, is that each level in Tera takes about the same amount of time to complete. I noticed that with some of the new korean games.

And yes RNG was terrible in Tera, and that ultimately killed it for me, and the fact that battleground pvp just didn't suit the way tera is built, and wasn't having fun in that area so I quit.

I imagine the RNG can be pretty bad in bns and too, but to me it doesn't sound so bad either.

[Mizuki]

I enjoyed TERA and it wasn't a grindfest, but the end game was frustrating

[Laner]

Mizuki, on Dec 26, 2012 - 5:35 PM, said:

I enjoyed TERA and it wasn't a grindfest, but the end game was frustrating

+1

[jokerstar]

Zenek, on Dec 24, 2012 - 9:11 PM, said:

Developers of Tera promised the same. If you ask them about RNG in game, they will probably also deny.

Btw. anybody from KR server can say how much RNG base is B&S?

Alot of RNG involved, when you get equips you have to ID them, and they can give a variety of different stats. Weapons will also have different effects/gem sockets.

It gets even worse in open raid dungeons like Poh 24/DBSH:
First, you get boxes from bosses that you open with keys. You have to grind mobs in the dungeon for them.
The boxes that give purple weapons come from the "final" bosses in each dungeon (Pohwaran/Haemujin).and a bonus boss after beating the final boss.
Once you open the box, its RNG based on what classes weapon you get. I've gotten a crazy amount of FM weapons as a LBM. Note: Another annoying perk is that LBM weaps =/= BM weaps even though they look exactly the same.
If you're lucky enough to get your classes weapon, you have to ID it, and then you can see how much attack power it has/ gem sockets/ effect. It is very hard to get the best weapon.

I still remember the day I finally got to 45 and was able to go to the Pohwaran 24 open raid dungeon, I was really optimistic and was thinking that it wouldn't be long before I was endgame ready with an awesome 231-259 attack weapon that could own anything.

2 Weeks later, after sitting in both Pohwaran 24 and DBSH for long hours grinding for keys to open boxes, the only thing I have to show for it was a 198 attack sword. I decomposed so many useless purple weapons that I ended up using a mediocre 209 attack 45 purple coin weapon. (You get purple coins by decomposing purple weapons/other purple items)

Of course, you can always do the 4/6 man versions of the dungeons if you can handle them, which will gear you up faster. Unfortunately, I doubt I'm ready for these yet.



EDIT: Even with all these limitations, its probably alot faster to gear up in this game than any other MMOs i played.

This post has been edited by jokerstar: Dec 26, 2012 - 6:08 PM

[Zenek]

Laner, on Dec 26, 2012 - 5:15 PM, said:

But Tera is still not a grindfest. It was simply boring to you. To me it wasn't boring, it had a completely different combat system, and it felt interesting and new while I was leveling up. I guess what it is, is that each level in Tera takes about the same amount of time to complete. I noticed that with some of the new korean games.

Mizuki, on Dec 26, 2012 - 5:35 PM, said:

I enjoyed TERA and it wasn't a grindfest, but the end game was frustrating

Ahh... lvl-ing in Tera was fun... but that was short period of time. And it was fun because of open world and PvP. When I was with my clan, there was also mass PvP almost all the time :D
But after 60 lvl - mobs do not drop T13, BAM-s do not drop T13, even raid bosses did not drop T13. Only way to get this items was grind same 2 instances. If Tera endgame would not be that instances and RNG based, I would have much better opinion about this game.

And that is what I'm afraid about B&S - instances grind and RNG.

edit:
@ jokerstar

Thx for answer. After read this, I start have hope this game going to be westermised at last 0,o

This post has been edited by Zenek: Dec 26, 2012 - 6:23 PM

[Lily~]

The way i see it, grinding is only boring if the combat itself is rather lackluster.

Blade and soul combat is fun and engaging, ergo, i won't mind grinding~

[jokerstar]

Ururu, on Dec 26, 2012 - 6:24 PM, said:

The way i see it, grinding is only boring if the combat itself is rather lackluster.

Blade and soul combat is fun and engaging, ergo, i won't mind grinding~

pretty much this, reason i still play this game is because the combat system is amazing. Grinding really doesn't feel that bad because of how interactive combat is instead of just standing still and facerolling the keyboard.

[Laner]

Zenek, on Dec 26, 2012 - 6:13 PM, said:

Ahh... lvl-ing in Tera was fun... but that was short period of time. And it was fun because of open world and PvP. When I was with my clan, there was also mass PvP almost all the time :D
But after 60 lvl - mobs do not drop T13, BAM-s do not drop T13, even raid bosses did not drop T13. Only way to get this items was grind same 2 instances. If Tera endgame would not be that instances and RNG based, I would have much better opinion about this game.

And that is what I'm afraid about B&S - instances grind and RNG.

edit:
@ jokerstar

Thx for answer. After read this, I start have hope this game going to be westermised at last 0,o

Hmm you quit quite a long time ago then.

T13 is very easy to obtain now and almost worth nothing since t14 came out. I think getting your actual weapon is pretty easy (as long as it's not the queen wep), and the fodder is easy now too, bosses, bams... they do drop t13 and t14 fodder now (just not gold). And there are more dungeons now to do too.

Tera is mostly consumed by Nexus now, it's every single day now.. thats where I was getting my gold fodder from but...I got sick of that fast

Fodder isn't too much of a problem for me, for me when I think RNG I just think of how hard it is to get a +9 and even 3x harder to get +12...

In this case yeah you're right very grindy kind of end game... grind gold and grind gold fodder... for what? So you can do battleground or the hardest queen dungeons?
There was not enough content yet again, maybe if they came out with severals types of bgs I would be interested...


Anyway should stop talking about Tera, haha this a blade and soul discussion XD

I still have yet to get to 45, but from what I hear on the forums end-game sounds equally as boring or painful.
Buuuut.. it will keep me amused for awhile .. and I still plan on finding out how end - game is for myself.
Is Blade and Soul better or worse than Tera? I'm not sure yet.

This post has been edited by Laner: Dec 26, 2012 - 7:57 PM

[Mizuki]

Based off the videos I've seen of BnS, it's going to be more distinct and accessible. I'm sure there are a lot of other MMO's out there that can say the same but with BnS you're getting a rich environment that you can't experience anywhere else in the west anyway

What made TERA fun for me was it took good ideas from several different MMO's and put it into one game.

Up to this point I've enjoyed all the MMO's that I've played and left for one reason for another but the main challenge every MMO faces is what happens when you get to max level. I'm not going to judge the game yet since I haven't played it, i'll keep getting excited and enjoying all the new videos that release. My judgement day for this game probably won't come for awhile due to the amount of classes I plan on playing,

• KungFu Master
  
• Blade Master
  
• Assassin
  
• Destroyer
  
• Force Master

all look fun so that should keep me busy for a long time. What kept me busy with WoW for so long was swapping between alts and doing raids with my guild, when I wasn't raiding I was playing an alt. My time with that game lasted the longest just because I didn't really have a lot of time to play the game due to real life so I didn't get burned out quickly. Everyone's burn out point is going to be relative, looking forward to seeing the threads people will make on the official forums that the game needs more content, TERA , SWTOR and even WoW received the same complaints. People need to be mindful that you can't slam a developer just because you get to play a lot more than other people, there's always going to be someone that can only play the game for two hours a day that will not have any issues with what's being rolled out.

[Brotillian]

If Tera felt like a grind fest to you then I'd suggest going out and exploring other MMOs. That or sitting down and looking in to what the community at large would define as a true grind fest. From what I've seen/heard so far, BnS seems to fall into step along with your "traditional" mmo nowadays. So if you didn't like Tera then you probably wont like BnS either. I on the other hand found leveling in Tera to be really easy and quite enjoyable. The game was so beautiful that repetitive kill quests never bothered me at all and the campaign was actually quite enjoyable. What always tends to annoy me though with current day mmos is they seem to always replace your traditional level grind fest with RNG. I remember playing RF Online, grinding for days on end then getting close to leveling up only to die and lose a days worth of work just like that. I'd honestly prefer that in every game over what games do now. Get to end game and run the same instances over and over to try and get gear only to have it rarely ever drop. Or you get it, but in order to make it good there were tons of obstacles in your way like enhancements being lost on a high chance or other such things.

I personally don't mind long stretches of time between levels in an mmo so much as I mind a grindy dull end game with little variation. Something about BnS seems different though. I haven't been this attracted to an MMO since RF Online so I'll probably wind up not caring about a grindy end game, however if there are enough instances and content updates it'll likely be enough to keep me entertained for a long time. Recent updates for the game in Korea seem to imply the end game updates are trickling in at a decent rate.

[foxlight713]

Brotillian, on Dec 27, 2012 - 6:07 AM, said:

I remember playing RF Online, grinding for days on end then getting close to leveling up only to die and lose a days worth of work just like that.

Ahh RF online, I really liked the aesthetics in that game and the Bell mechs. Though yes the quests in that game didn't give all that much exp and you had to end up grinding mobs and die'ing ment you could loose all that exp progress or more.

BrandX, on Dec 25, 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

I wouldn't call TERA a grindfest, because after the early levels, you can start going on different quest lines that aren't part of the storyline quest lines. In fact, in TERA, I've actually outleveled and missed part of the storyline quests as I didn't realize I was skipping parts :p But I was also able to ignore a map on one character and do it on another. To me, that stops a MMO from feeling like a grindfest, because I'm not repeating the same content over and over.

I remember doing that in WoW as well you could almost stay on one continent up to lv 58 and jump to outlands, then do about half the zones in outlands before you jump off to Northrend then off to the cataclysm content. Then ever sense the put in Looking for Dungeon if your a tank or healer you won't even have to level in a zone past level 10 because you can just spam looking for dungeon.

[Zenek]

Laner, on Dec 26, 2012 - 7:53 PM, said:

Hmm you quit quite a long time ago then.

...

Anyway should stop talking about Tera, haha this a blade and soul discussion XD

No, I still have active acc. Just after few of weeks play it I made this opinion, and I keep it to this day.

That is exactly what I means - boring grind for nothing, no even competive PvP during and after this. BG in Tera is mindless PUG mess in the cage.

I would not like to spam all the time about Tera. But Tera seems as best competive for B&S. This games share almost the same advantages and disadvantages. It is hard to not make compare.

Mizuki, on Dec 26, 2012 - 8:49 PM, said:

Everyone's burn out point is going to be relative, looking forward to seeing the threads people will make on the official forums that the game needs more content, TERA , SWTOR and even WoW received the same complaints. People need to be mindful that you can't slam a developer just because you get to play a lot more than other people, there's always going to be someone that can only play the game for two hours a day that will not have any issues with what's being rolled out.

I definitely do not agree with you. Not players need to change, but developers and games. Casuals is plague what destroyed games - at this moment even "Game Over" mark got removed from games because of them.

Sad story is WoW did grand success on this. But... also other games die because of it. Game must have content to survive. It must give players reason to play. Other way they will leave and complains.


And we come back here to grind. Developers think they can keep players by grind. Ofc - that is hold players from get everything what is possible. But that is not the point, way to finish game content must be fun. Frustrated (main effect of RNG) and bored players - means less consumers. I'm wonder when developers will back to more oldschool MMO where made for fun, challenge and rivalry between players.