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Dualwield? Rate Topic: -----

#101
User is offline   RamenNoodles452 

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Posted Sep 24, 2011 - 5:26 PM

View PostUltima, on Sep 24, 2011 - 5:19 PM, said:

Could have the left click/R alternate sword smacks, swinging faster than you would with one sword as each sword swings while you pull the other back, alternating swings, lead up into some combos ya know? Get blocked/parried? Smack em with the other blade.

Don't look at Dual Wield from a Tab-Target game, heck, technically KFMs "Dual Wield" They wear a gauntlet on each hand.


I'm not. As I've mentioned there's no auto attack. Your basic attack combo immediately allows you to swing for the 2nd hit to the combo after a short global cool down (during which the button for the 1st swing transitions into the button for the 2nd swing.) Meaning, that you CAN'T swing any faster than you already can.
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#102
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Posted Sep 24, 2011 - 5:28 PM

View PostRamenNoodles452, on Sep 24, 2011 - 5:26 PM, said:

I'm not. As I've mentioned there's no auto attack. Your basic attack combo immediately allows you to swing for the 2nd hit to the combo after a short global cool down (during which the button for the 1st swing transitions into the button for the 2nd swing.) Meaning, that you CAN'T swing any faster than you already can.

When did I say auto attack? I said Left-click/R combo, the mechanics aren't set in stone, otherwise each class wouldn't be unique eh?
Global Cooldown is just a mechanic.

This post has been edited by Ultima: Sep 24, 2011 - 5:28 PM

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#103
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Posted Sep 24, 2011 - 5:36 PM

View PostUltima, on Sep 24, 2011 - 5:28 PM, said:

When did I say auto attack? I said Left-click/R combo, the mechanics aren't set in stone, otherwise each class wouldn't be unique eh?
Global Cooldown is just a mechanic.


You didn't, I thought you were referring to my mentioning of it when you said to not treat this as a tab targeting game. I haven't been. And yes, the Global Cooldown IS just a mechanic, but it's an inherit one in combos since you have to wait for your button to turn into the next button in the combo before you can press it.

If you're saying that Blade Masters dual wielding should have a faster button transition than single sword blade masters, not only will that make dual blades pretty ridiculous, but at the same time, BMs would also have a faster button transition than every other class in game, which is a pretty unfair advantage.
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#104
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Posted Sep 24, 2011 - 5:46 PM

View PostRamenNoodles452, on Sep 24, 2011 - 5:36 PM, said:

You didn't, I thought you were referring to my mentioning of it when you said to not treat this as a tab targeting game. I haven't been. And yes, the Global Cooldown IS just a mechanic, but it's an inherit one in combos since you have to wait for your button to turn into the next button in the combo before you can press it.

If you're saying that Blade Masters dual wielding should have a faster button transition than single sword blade masters, not only will that make dual blades pretty ridiculous, but at the same time, BMs would also have a faster button transition than every other class in game, which is a pretty unfair advantage.

I'm pretty sure Destroyers are slower than most swinging a huge axe, or it'd be unfair to do alot of damage with a big axe in a quick period of time, so is it unfair that they are possibly slower? There's plenty of ways to make anything fair.
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#105
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Posted Sep 24, 2011 - 5:51 PM

I think destroyers actually have a cooldown on their basic combo, which would make sense for how slow it is.

But I'm trying to say that BM's attack speed is limited to how fast the buttons transition into the next button. You can't really make the BM's basic combo be any faster
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#106
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Posted Sep 24, 2011 - 5:58 PM

View PostRamenNoodles452, on Sep 24, 2011 - 5:51 PM, said:

I think destroyers actually have a cooldown on their basic combo, which would make sense for how slow it is.

But I'm trying to say that BM's attack speed is limited to how fast the buttons transition into the next button. You can't really make the BM's basic combo be any faster

Proof?
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#107
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Posted Sep 24, 2011 - 6:11 PM

View PostRamenNoodles452, on Sep 24, 2011 - 5:36 PM, said:

You didn't, I thought you were referring to my mentioning of it when you said to not treat this as a tab targeting game. I haven't been. And yes, the Global Cooldown IS just a mechanic, but it's an inherit one in combos since you have to wait for your button to turn into the next button in the combo before you can press it.

If you're saying that Blade Masters dual wielding should have a faster button transition than single sword blade masters, not only will that make dual blades pretty ridiculous, but at the same time, BMs would also have a faster button transition than every other class in game, which is a pretty unfair advantage.

Even though it doesn't make sense with irl logic, maybe you could have faster button transitions and what not for dual wielding, but it would also have lower damage than a single BM. Or the other way around, slower transitions and attack speed (which makes more sense irl terms since you'd be using more energy) but stronger attacks.

This post has been edited by Yox: Sep 24, 2011 - 6:11 PM

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#108
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Posted Sep 24, 2011 - 6:17 PM

Should make it so they can attack faster or heck, slow em down so they can coordinate both swords into proper combos, making them less dodge-oriented more dual sword blocking/parrying while slashing.
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#109
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Posted Sep 24, 2011 - 8:13 PM

I thought they were pretty block/parry oriented as it was...

Also Ultima, I stand corrected, their basic combo has a 1 second cooldown between using it, and being able to use the next one in the combo. So it COULD be faster, I just don't think it's all that necessary. I think they're already the fastest attacker in the game. To make them even faster doesn't really feel like it'd do too much for the class.

I mean, they already have 4 stances. And unless the 4th stance IS duel wielding, I don't see them giving BMs another one... especially when the other classes don't have as many as the BMs do as of right now.

I mean, what it comes down to is, what does Duel Wielding give BMs?

I'll assume that they just get two of the same sword like how BMs get 5 of the same sword for Summon Sword form. So statistically, all that off-hand/main-hand crap is just out the window. To me, it seems like it'd just be normal stance, but with two swords...

Would this second form be on a timer? or would it just last until you want it to last? And if so, why would people want to switch back to normal stance after they get duel swords?

This post has been edited by RamenNoodles452: Sep 24, 2011 - 8:14 PM

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#110
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Posted Sep 25, 2011 - 12:20 AM

^ correction, assassins r faster in terms of attack speed if u wanna go into details.

and if the devs make dual wield an option for bms, realistically speaking, they will simply change the animation around and keep the basic combos the same imo...making left click/right click to control each sword arm sounds...like too much work~ lol.

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#111
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Posted Sep 25, 2011 - 12:43 AM

I'm low on ideas honestly, I don't know how BnS works entirely, after some hands-on experience I'd be able to say more, so for now I'm stumped. I do have an idea for all classes, how about a use for their Qing Gong/resource bar in combat? Like for some special abilities.
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#112
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Posted Sep 25, 2011 - 12:51 AM

From what I've seen Qing Gong is basically disabled upon entering combat... which is a shame IMO.... there are so many cool ways to incorporate it... but at the same time, if you could use Qing Gong while fighting, it'd be a massive pain to hit anyone lol

Maybe some other way of using Qing Gong as opposed to super speed?
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#113
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Posted Sep 25, 2011 - 1:30 AM

View PostRamenNoodles452, on Sep 25, 2011 - 12:51 AM, said:

From what I've seen Qing Gong is basically disabled upon entering combat... which is a shame IMO.... there are so many cool ways to incorporate it... but at the same time, if you could use Qing Gong while fighting, it'd be a massive pain to hit anyone lol

Maybe some other way of using Qing Gong as opposed to super speed?

No see not Qing-Gong in battle, use the bar in combat for something else.
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#114
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Posted Sep 26, 2011 - 11:01 AM

the stamina bar is strictly for dashing/jumping, nothing else. You don't use up that bar when you are attacking. This isn't Vindictus people....

enabling Qui Gong in combat will make battles too...chaotic. I guess it COULD be sorta realistic since in martial arts movies you see characters flying all over the place while fighting...but this isn't reality lolz.

if they made Qui Gong not use up any stamina out of combat but use up a whole lot while in combat...limiting its uses, maybe.

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#115
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Posted Sep 27, 2011 - 9:50 AM

1) this is something that came up earlier about duel wielding having equal swing power and what not.

-dual wielding doesn't automatically mean using weapons of the same size/kind and same goes with the skill/power of each weapon

-you can have 2 different weapons in each hand and it's still duel wielding

-you can have same weapon type ( ex. swords in both hand) but different size. like Leonardo's samurai friend Usagi-san form Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. Usagi uses a long and short katana.

-there are advantages and disadvantages to to ANY style of fighting. It's simply user preference and availability.

-ex) long/short katana: use the long katana as the main attack and use the short for a fatal blow when there's an opening
there are swords specifically made for dual wielding and r practically useless if used individually and they don't require equal strength in each hand

( I apologize to people that are aware of this already. It just pissed me off how some implied the strength in both hands in duel wielding must be equal. People that still think that, go and expand your world bro/sis.)


2) IMO the reason some prefer dual swords versus a single sword regardless of whether or not the swing of a single dual sword is equal to the swing of a one sword is

A) it's just for the looks. I personally prefer the animations of dual swords despite the weaker attacks of each individual weapon b/c I love spin techniques and dual swords tend to use that a lot. I've played Dynasty Warriors and seen videos of Bladedancer ( sub-class of Witchblade i think) from Continent of the Ninth (C9). I love the combos from both to the point if "jizz my pants" epic.

B) different fighting style and therefore different skills.( Zoro from One piece uses 3 katanas but he has skills from1-2-3 sword styles. 3-sword is strongest b/c that's what Zoro specializes in.
Kanda Yu from D. Gray Man has one katana but has a stance/technique that uses his life force to let him use a 2nd katana which is a different skill set or a varied skill set from his single katana.)


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#116
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Posted Sep 27, 2011 - 10:40 AM

View PostLGCarnival, on Sep 27, 2011 - 9:50 AM, said:

1) this is something that came up earlier about duel wielding having equal swing power and what not.

-dual wielding doesn't automatically mean using weapons of the same size/kind and same goes with the skill/power of each weapon

-you can have 2 different weapons in each hand and it's still duel wielding

-you can have same weapon type ( ex. swords in both hand) but different size. like Leonardo's samurai friend Usagi-san form Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. Usagi uses a long and short katana.

-there are advantages and disadvantages to to ANY style of fighting. It's simply user preference and availability.

-ex) long/short katana: use the long katana as the main attack and use the short for a fatal blow when there's an opening
there are swords specifically made for dual wielding and r practically useless if used individually and they don't require equal strength in each hand

( I apologize to people that are aware of this already. It just pissed me off how some implied the strength in both hands in duel wielding must be equal. People that still think that, go and expand your world bro/sis.)


2) IMO the reason some prefer dual swords versus a single sword regardless of whether or not the swing of a single dual sword is equal to the swing of a one sword is

A) it's just for the looks. I personally prefer the animations of dual swords despite the weaker attacks of each individual weapon b/c I love spin techniques and dual swords tend to use that a lot. I've played Dynasty Warriors and seen videos of Bladedancer ( sub-class of Witchblade i think) from Continent of the Ninth (C9). I love the combos from both to the point if "jizz my pants" epic.

B) different fighting style and therefore different skills.( Zoro from One piece uses 3 katanas but he has skills from1-2-3 sword styles. 3-sword is strongest b/c that's what Zoro specializes in.
Kanda Yu from D. Gray Man has one katana but has a stance/technique that uses his life force to let him use a 2nd katana which is a different skill set or a varied skill set from his single katana.)


this post has no purpose. SKIP if you like
sorry for the long post and sorry if i offend anyone as it's often turned out that i have in this forum



About the same weapons thing for duel wielding BMs. I said that because if you allowed BMs to have two different weapon items as a main/off-hand it wouldn't be fair for them because to make use to this stance, it would force BMs to waste an additional inventory slot for it.

My whole argument against dual wielding was against it's practicality from a gameplay perspective. Obviously a BM dual wielding isn't going to be like how a real person does it. And I probably should have made that point clearer.
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#117
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Posted Sep 27, 2011 - 8:58 PM

View PostRamenNoodles452, on Sep 27, 2011 - 10:40 AM, said:

About the same weapons thing for duel wielding BMs. I said that because if you allowed BMs to have two different weapon items as a main/off-hand it wouldn't be fair for them because to make use to this stance, it would force BMs to waste an additional inventory slot for it.

My whole argument against dual wielding was against it's practicality from a gameplay perspective. Obviously a BM dual wielding isn't going to be like how a real person does it. And I probably should have made that point clearer.


I've been thinking on this matter about that it'd need another inventory slot to dualwield, but that might not be neccesary, what if it creates a smaller weapon for the left hand, that matches the original sword, just for the stance, as the 6 flying swords doesn't take 5 additional slots in the backpack, I don't think this would have to do so either.

And of-course they won't do it like a real person, as their original skills aren't quite real to begin with.
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#118
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Posted Sep 27, 2011 - 9:01 PM

if it's about practicality and fairness then GAWD I HOPE BnS does Subclass and one choice for BM is dual wielding.
not many ppl like subclasses but i like how C9 did it and my preference of subclass is b/c of C9

just for clarification, i wasn't picking on anyone in particular. my post was just something that dawned on me while reading through the other posts and just thought i'd point it out.

@RamenNoodles452
the practicality you mention. something can be done about it if ppl rly want to and still make things fair. just saying. don't wanna argue over this so imma leave at that on practicality.

my thought process is simple " I want my f***ing twin swords" (twin meaning same size and type of sword)
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#119
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Posted Jan 03, 2013 - 8:08 AM

I guess dual wield would fit assasin better. the only way i immagine blademaster using more then one sword is while using flying swords skillset but it would be great if he would mix those 6 floatign swords in a mele-ish combat
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#120
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Posted Jan 03, 2013 - 8:42 AM

Yeah it's not the first time that i see a dual Blade Master. Look at this one:

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I think they're preparing a big surprise. I love this adult Lyn by the way, so classy <3

EDIT: Weird thing, this outfit is only available for Jin actually...

This post has been edited by Maeko: Jan 03, 2013 - 8:44 AM

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