[Zenek]

Ridiculously small hitboxes, tons of CC and dodge is too low? Why it could share skill what have destroyer? Even KFM (another class reserved for big races) do not have skills like this.

[jokerstar]

You wanna know how to completely screw someone over as an LBM if you choke them with enough chi for summon sword/lightning? Skill the chi steal to the last one, and it will stun them after chi steal is completed, making your quick draw basically unblockable/undodgable. If you also skill the left click stun skill while attacking in quick draw, you stun them again and you can launch them to do an aerial combo afterward. If they're not wearing PvP gear, they should be dead by now.

oh, also destroyers are fat

This post has been edited by jokerstar: Jan 04, 2013 - 1:11 PM

[KimChiCuCai]

yes the chi choke combo is sick,way too OP. and i love when destroyer + KFM jump to our base and completely swept it :D

[Zenek]

But FM also have this skill - is there any single reason why it could be less OP for FM?

[Maliken]

FM chi choke cannot grab boss while LBM and Destroyer can.

[Zenek]

But we talk about PVP.

[jokerstar]

i've never played the fm, but I'm pretty sure they can't summon swords/thunderbolt you when you're being choked, so its basically just a disable where the fm can't really do anything either. That's just from my experience in getting choked by the fm, so I'm really not sure.

[KimChiCuCai]

coz FM is a ranged class, and they have very sick cold skill which freezee you like meat. They dont really need to drag you in anyway.

Chi choke FM go with knock back skill tree, since they want to keep distance and slow + freezee. They not choke for spamming dps skill while keep opponent hanging in the air.

And Lyn can use burst dps , using all of their most powerful skill in one row, and opponent cant strike back. If paper and not build for PVP, yes you are done for.

But lyn spinning not that really OP since it cost too much chi, and Lyn bm dont have much defensive skill, beside spinning and sword protect. They should nerf the movement speed through, or give lyn Bm block skill like BM. or else they done for.

Sword protect can protect lynbm for 5 hit, but got 30 sec cd, and cant protect again bleed and poison. Spinning is the only way since it increase 400% def, which usually let them got 50% dmg reduce( normal from 15->25%). and immu effect, but really cost Chi and with out blocking skill chi really hard to get in PVP, Want chi steal, u must have choke them first. with out 7 chi you cant use full combo.

So in mass pvp they usually pick opponent around 13-15k hp, and sprint in, choke, dash back, summon sword, call lightning, and keep u there, let their team mate or NPC hit them for like 6 second :D, chi steal, quick draw, can use lightning blade or aerial combo. I usually see Assasin invisible, swap enemy in for lyn choke, then dash back to their base, and yes no one can help you :D

Chi choke got really quick CD, 18 sec and long cast range, but summon sword, protect sword, call lightning took 30 sec cooldown.

In mass pvp that mean each 30 sec u can kill 1 people, but in 1v1, u hardly can charge full 7 chi to use combo again. Got slowed, cant dash, the only option is to use tab to move, but that cost you 2 chi alrdy :D, this will burn your chi so fast. Spin can only let you move freely, but do not remove effect.

So in mass war or group pvp, yes chi choke combo so much OP, solo not that OP if u got crit res.and use your block when lyn going to choke you.


Oh but i think Lyn bm can stun lock you, they do have that skill tree. So in the end OP.

But i ALWAYS see KFM and DESTROYER basically jump in and destroyed our base , kill all NPC :D so u guess what?

This post has been edited by KimChiCuCai: Jan 04, 2013 - 3:01 PM

[Zenek]

So for group PvP choke from FM is exactly same retarded as from LBM - not possible to block/dodge but immobilise for 6 sec.

Are you rly compare kill NPC to players? And btw. what is class population?

[KimChiCuCai]

yes, but they can just freezee you :D, going in and choke ppl has their risk you know. Oh and i do think choke can be block by blocking skill, or sword protect.

You do know what completely swept and destroyed mean? they basically kill everything, include the shoping NPC :D i still think destroyer as so much OP, oh and the KFM relfect skill also

[Tashigi]

Personally I'd wait for an NA version and some months before drawing any conclusions.
I mean, who thought Warriors in WOW were going to be unstoppable killing machines in PVP at Lv 60, once they geared? No one. A few months later, once people got strategies down and geared them; they became unstoppable.

Personally, as far as MMO go, I've found the "gimped" classes are usually "gimped" more so due to the user behind the keyboard, than the class itself.
But I also know that in some cases, some classes/skill combinations simply do not work for PVP. So that's another issue.
Ultimately, it's a combination of many things.

[Chronas]

I find it amusing that most people keep arguing because "I can't beat something 1v1"

If it was a group situation, it might be a different story when the group knows who to cc and focus first. I don't consider any MMO to be 1v1 friendly. So I always travel in a small pack. Should probably learn to do the same and just live with what life gives you.

[Zenek]

That is no important if that is 1v1 or mass PvP as long as issue is 6 sec immobilise - far too long CC.

[Janshi]

Chronas, on Jan 04, 2013 - 4:00 PM, said:

I find it amusing that most people keep arguing because "I can't beat something 1v1"

If it was a group situation, it might be a different story when the group knows who to cc and focus first. I don't consider any MMO to be 1v1 friendly. So I always travel in a small pack. Should probably learn to do the same and just live with what life gives you.

Many ppl are talking about 1on1 situations like duels. Since BnS will have rated 1 vs 1 duel arena, class balance regarding 1on1 IS a issue.


@Zenek: The chi choke from the fm is a bit different story. Of course it´s hard that you aren´t able to do anything during the chi choke time and everyone can beat the shit out of you, but if we talking about structured group pvp you can counter the chi choke with good teamplay. If the fm grab one of your team mates, you or someone other with the possiblity just have to stun the fm and your teammate is free.
My partner is a summoner and she is meanwhile specialised to stun the sucker who grabs me and vice versa :)
One of my favourites against a lbm or fm who grabs my partner is to switch places with him, hehe.
In 1on1 situations the chi choke from the fm isn´t so strong like the on from the lbm, at least it isn´t op because he can´t beat the shit out of you during the time he or she has you in chi choke. In the end it´s the combination of a lot of skills that makes a lbm op imo. A lbm isn´t op only because of chi choke. Chi choke basically means for him tons of damage that he or she can safely inflict on you in 1 on 1 situations.

In open pvp, thats a whole different story of course. Chi choke in mass (zerg) pvp is retarded, there is no doubt about this.

This post has been edited by Janshi: Jan 04, 2013 - 4:43 PM

[Zenek]

Janshi, on Jan 04, 2013 - 4:41 PM, said:

In open pvp, thats a whole different story of course. Chi choke in mass (zerg) pvp is retarded, there is no doubt about this.

But it means whole current OWPvP content - there is nothing except faction wars atm.

This post has been edited by Zenek: Jan 04, 2013 - 4:45 PM

[Janshi]

Zenek, on Jan 04, 2013 - 4:44 PM, said:

But it means whole current OWPvP content - there is nothing except faction wars atm.

You´re right but i just wanted to relativize the view over the fm because you mentioned his chi choke. For me open pvp is fun too, but i´m more interested in group pvp balance. Regarding group pvp balance, fm isn´t op imo. It´s a strong class, if played well, but far from op.

Well in the end, openpvp is never fair. But i have to admit, this chi choke is really really retarded.

This post has been edited by Janshi: Jan 04, 2013 - 4:51 PM

[Zenek]

OWPvP is never aimed to be fair. But situation when single CC can cause drop of 100% HP is not good even for OWPvP. Even swarmed target should be able to some kind of fight. IMO CC like choke should be not be even implemented. And if can not be removed, at last it should be nerfed to acceptable duration.
But even in structured PvP like 3v3 - that is easy to abuse.

[jokerstar]

actually i discovered that you can block the chi choke in some ways, mainly dodging, sword parry. It really comes down to how well the lbm can time the choke so it isnt blocked. In Zerg PvP this is extremely hard as its hard to tell who is doing what with all lthe fighting going around. However, in 1v1s if you can parry/dodge the choke you've got a great advantage. Alot of lbm's will be pretty obvious and choke as soon as they use a dash skill to get to you, if you manage to block/dodge the choke then the lbm will prob try to ss/spin away and likely waste alot of chi trying to get away from close quarters. I rarely see many lbm's willing to fight with choke not on cd. However, if you do get choked, you're probably screwed. It takes alot of chi to be able to do the choke/sword/lightning combo, so if you can get the lbm to low chi to start a fight, its really good for you.

This post has been edited by jokerstar: Jan 04, 2013 - 5:42 PM

[milaR0se]

Thank you for your answers so far. It seems my first impressions aren't so wrong.

Well no one said much about KFM yet. I guess since it's one of the "more difficult classes" it will be also hard for you in PVP. No much room for mistakes.
In the most cases i have problems to bring any charge attack or combo through, what is i guess the only way to really beat your opponent. No combo no chance for win. Well, i still got to much to learn.

Someone asked when i played aion... I played right after EU server start, for about 2 months. And i started with gladiator since people told me kantor is very useless at high lvl (kantor was my first choice). So i started with gladitor. Well, what a big mistake. I never seen any game where you are that chanceless in PVP against any other class.

Back to subject again.
You basicly chose a class because you like the style. At least so did i, i like KFM.
But in the end, if you see that your class is basicly weak compared to others in PVP, or there are any overpowered classes that kill you again and again you will loose the fun playing it, sooner or later for sure.
I have bad luck with most times chosing the classes that are very weak in PVP, or are ok first, but after updates other classes getting much stronger while you getting no usefull things. And that was always the reason why i left tany mmo.
My first one was ragnarok, i played as monk. It was good till the rebirth classes came, and later soullinker etc.

1o1, group/mass pvp doesn't matter most times. If your class is sucks at PVP it will suck at 1o1 and groupbattle.
Like some people say, just fill the party only with the most OP-class. Sadly, the winning team is most times not the most skilled one, or the balanced one but the one that has most strongest classes with unfair skills.

[Zenek]

@milaR0se
If you only fears LBM - it will be nerfed to the ground. Developers never allow melee classes stay "OP" for any longer period of time - this privilege have only range DPS. That happens with every MMO.
And from something what you say, you like melee DPS. That is sad, but all melee DPS (with exception for stealth classes) are almost always underpowered in MMO - that is my observation since I play MMORPG. And that is something what irritates me. I also do want play KFM, and something what I see do not make me happy from my chose :/

This post has been edited by Zenek: Jan 04, 2013 - 6:48 PM