[Spirits of Vengeance]

Not to be harsh or anything but arcades pretty much did die and an mmo is not exactly an arcade game. Most people have their own arcades with dozens of games thanks to advanced entertainment technology. You buy the game, you buy the machine to play it on, you buy the expansions or DLC (god I don't like EA DLCs). Arcades were way back in the day when games and game console were first emerging as exotic forms of entertainment and they had no competition so they could charge however much they wanted and were expensive. Now everything relating to games is much more wide spread and there is competition everywhere.


All I'm saying now is that it is dangerous for a barely advertised eastern P2P mmo to try and succeed in an over saturated western mmo market where GW2 a B2P game just became a recent remarkable success and mmo game of the year. If they start out P2P and have to switch to F2P at any point people will believe the game to have failed, there is no such risk in making it B2P. I'm cool with either but I'm voting for B2P.



Edit: Oh #### I forgot about the massive amount of hate and discrediting directed towards NC Soft floating around right now by gamers over the closing of Paragon Studios.

This post has been edited by Spirits of Vengeance: Feb 06, 2013 - 12:58 AM

[Vile Samael]

If we can't include other online games like League of Legends in the argument, we can't include arcades. I mean, Arcades were/are notorious for stealing your money, and at the time they were your only option. If LoL and BnS are nothing alike, then Arcades and BnS sure as HELL are not alike.

This post has been edited by Vile Samael: Feb 05, 2013 - 3:59 AM

[BrandX]

Spirits of Vengeance, on Feb 05, 2013 - 2:30 AM, said:

Not to be harsh or anything but arcades pretty much did die and an mmo is not exactly an arcade game. Most people have their own arcades with dozens of games thanks to advanced entertainment technology. You buy the game, you buy the machine to play it on, you buy the expansions or DLC (god I don't like EA DLCs). Arcades were way back in the day when games and game console were first emerging as exotic forms of entertainment and they had no competition so they could charge however much they wanted and were expensive. Now everything relating to games is much more wide spread and there is competition everywhere.


All I'm saying now is that it is dangerous for a barely advertised eastern P2P mmo to try and succeed in an over saturated western mmo market where GW2 a B2P game just became a recent remarkable success and mmo game of the year. If they start out P2P and have to switch to F2P at any point people will believe the game to have failed, there is no such risk in making it B2P. I'm cool with either but I'm voting for B2P.



Edit: Oh #### I forgot about the massive amount of hate and discrediting directed towards NC Soft floating around right now by fanatical gamers over the closing of Paragon Studios. That...doesn't help things. I'm scared lol

GW2 was a success. Question is, is it still a success? While I know plenty of people still play it, I don't know how many is "plenty" and I hear complaints about GW2 often.

As for the NCSoft hate over closing Paragon Studios. I don't know why you'd say it so rudely. I'm pretty sure people did the same with the closing of SWG and at the very least, Paragon Studios was still making money when it closed down, unlike SWG.

Closing Paragon Studios was a dumb move.

[Zef]

Oh it's a success all right. An article from around two weeks ago states they passed 3 million copies sold mark. This might not be Diablo 3 level sales, but do remember Diablo 3 was riding the hype and legendary predecessor, and now it's considered shit, whereas gw2 made a good name for itself and steadily keeps getting new buyers.

I"m playing it everyday now and had no problems finding a party for story mode dungeon (on a working day mind you). That says something about population ingame.

As for complaints you'll hear them on any game's forum - happy players play, unhappy post. And complains are often for one reason. The "next thing in MMOS" which gw2 is, turns out to be a package deal - it's not just "next" but also "different". It's non grindy, and not based around gear progression forcing days upon weeks of grind to get top gear till next wave of junk comes out.

Those used to that gameplay model are just baffled shocked and running around like headless chickens screaming they got nothing to do! It's because GW2 is exploring mmo and pvp mmo. It's based around exploration, skill builds, and huge customisation options for character armors and weapon looks. But most people used to old style mmos go with "power level to 80, get best gear...err that's it?!"

[Wtfownedu]

You people crying for p2p will regret it and kill the game. Admit it, there isnt a huge enough fanbase and following in the west for bns to survive long on p2p, not to mention it will go p against the likes of aion, tera, gw2, eso and a few more games. The west isnt used to asian style mmo much less one based on asian background martial arts. They arent as intrigued by that as they are to say dragons and knights. This isnt a generalization either its statistics. The best option would be b2p or f2p which eventually switches to b2p after getting enough recogniton

[Mickey]

Hmm...I agree but they have their own reasons why they would want p2p

More people vote for b2p

[BLöDSKääL]

BnS is not just another asian MMO, it comes with a combat system thats only found similar in Tera. all other mmo's in comparison fall off. thus P2P is viable from that stand point.

[Mickey]

The point is that the west hasn't adapted/it use to martial art no matter the gameplay.
Thus, the company would take a hit if it turns out the west doesn't like it.
B2P

[Vile Samael]

BLöDSKääL, on Feb 05, 2013 - 5:31 PM, said:

BnS is not just another asian MMO, it comes with a combat system thats only found similar in Tera. all other mmo's in comparison fall off. thus P2P is viable from that stand point.

IMO Vindictus does the targetless combat system better. It's less, well, boring.

[Zef]

A game going B2P when it was F2P is kinda unthinkable. People would boycott that. If anything a game goes from more expensive payment model down to less expensive one (wide: tera).

And that's yet another trap of P2P - things can go south easy, and if that happens you're gonna fall hard off a high branch to a rocky landing. P2P game going F2P has the irremovable stench of failure on it, not to mention a disgusting gutting of game's mechanics to fit a new payment model that it was originally not designed for.

That's why B2P is the best model - it appeals to wide audience, much wider then P2P yet with the cost and associated resposability keeps the trolls away (one perma ban = 40-60$ lost). And in B&S case...let's see GW2 has non P2W Cash Shop, and so does B&S in Korea....so exactly what is this huge advantage P2P B&S style would give over B2P GW2 model?

[BrandX]

Zef, on Feb 05, 2013 - 7:38 PM, said:

A game going B2P when it was F2P is kinda unthinkable. People would boycott that. If anything a game goes from more expensive payment model down to less expensive one (wide: tera).

And that's yet another trap of P2P - things can go south easy, and if that happens you're gonna fall hard off a high branch to a rocky landing. P2P game going F2P has the irremovable stench of failure on it, not to mention a disgusting gutting of game's mechanics to fit a new payment model that it was originally not designed for.

That's why B2P is the best model - it appeals to wide audience, much wider then P2P yet with the cost and associated resposability keeps the trolls away (one perma ban = 40-60$ lost). And in B&S case...let's see GW2 has non P2W Cash Shop, and so does B&S in Korea....so exactly what is this huge advantage P2P B&S style would give over B2P GW2 model?

More trust in the devs to keep the game improving. Feeling like there's a better chance at a better playerbase in the "Dont have to put up with someone who bought the game, hates it, and now just logs in to troll people"

Will BnS be a big hit in the west? Eh, probably not, but I say that not because it couldn't be, but because I don't see enough advertising for it.

[BLöDSKääL]

Lol vindictus does the targetless system better??? r u kidding me? their hitboxes are terrible, there is almost no versatility in skills, or positioning, and thats a instanced MP, not an MMO. that game is like comparing Solitaire to an MMO. And its absolutely terrible. At this point i doubt ur credibility to compare anything and everything lol

[Shoyru]

I think P2P in any game, is a great concept, but I would prefer it to be buying game time, not a month subscription deal. I don't have time that often, so 12dollars a month, being in the Air Force, sometimes I may only have a chance to log in for a day or two and at those times maybe on 3hrs at a time. If P2P was for buying game time like say $5 = 72 game hours or something like that sort it'd be easier for me to justify paying it.

[Spirits of Vengeance]

BrandX, on Feb 05, 2013 - 8:58 AM, said:

GW2 was a success. Question is, is it still a success? While I know plenty of people still play it, I don't know how many is "plenty" and I hear complaints about GW2 often.

As for the NCSoft hate over closing Paragon Studios. I don't know why you'd say it so rudely. I'm pretty sure people did the same with the closing of SWG and at the very least, Paragon Studios was still making money when it closed down, unlike SWG.

Closing Paragon Studios was a dumb move.

I said it so rudely because I'm conflicted. COH was my favorite game, period, I protested all they way up till the final day and debated on the forums. Paragon Studios had the right to stay open and by closing it they goofed. But now I have moved on and patched my heart up, I want to see BNS be successful and amazing but the ghosts of a dead game now haunt NC Soft myself included which is why I am conflicted.

This post has been edited by Spirits of Vengeance: Feb 06, 2013 - 1:07 AM

[kingdomsqueen]

BLöDSKääL, on Feb 05, 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

Lol vindictus does the targetless system better??? r u kidding me? their hitboxes are terrible, there is almost no versatility in skills, or positioning, and thats a instanced MP, not an MMO. that game is like comparing Solitaire to an MMO. And its absolutely terrible. At this point i doubt ur credibility to compare anything and everything lol

Now blood if vile liked vandictus that's her opinon speaking of which whatever happened to respecting people's opinons?

[Vile Samael]

BLöDSKääL, on Feb 05, 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

Lol vindictus does the targetless system better??? r u kidding me? their hitboxes are terrible, there is almost no versatility in skills, or positioning, and thats a instanced MP, not an MMO. that game is like comparing Solitaire to an MMO. And its absolutely terrible. At this point i doubt ur credibility to compare anything and everything lol

I rarely have had hitbox issues in Vindictus, and I've played since closed beta. BnS has more hitbox problems than Vin does. As for the versatility issues, you must be unimaginative, or you haven't played recently. I personally think it's a great game, instances or not. The combat is a lot more intense than I feel most games are, and that includes TERA. Oh, and don't worry, I don't really think your opinions are very credible either, I just respect them enough to not be rude about it.

This post has been edited by Vile Samael: Feb 06, 2013 - 2:09 AM

[BLöDSKääL]

lol there is nothing rude about my comments, what you say there doesnt link in with reality, ive played vindictus in the beta's as well as release, and current vindictus wiht current BnS, BnS wins hands down in every aspect. the only thing i found enjoyable in vindictus was the fact that if u hit a boss at certain part of the body, it would drop such item. other than that, its terrible from gameplay to everything else...

[Vile Samael]

BLöDSKääL, on Feb 06, 2013 - 9:24 AM, said:

lol there is nothing rude about my comments, what you say there doesnt link in with reality, ive played vindictus in the beta's as well as release, and current vindictus wiht current BnS, BnS wins hands down in every aspect. the only thing i found enjoyable in vindictus was the fact that if u hit a boss at certain part of the body, it would drop such item. other than that, its terrible from gameplay to everything else...

You are literally the first person I have ever seen complain about "terrible hitboxes" in Vin, so I find it hard to believe it isn't an issue on your end. I also like the armor design in Vindictus more than BnS, but that's more of an opinion thing. But hey, you don't like Vin, whatever. It's your opinion. Just don't go around shifting on people for liking it, or preferring it over another game. TERA's combat very quickly bores me, but if you enjoy it I won't scream at you because I think you're wrong and should feel bad for liking a thing.

[Kogane]

BLöDSKääL, on Feb 05, 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

Lol vindictus does the targetless system better??? r u kidding me? their hitboxes are terrible, there is almost no versatility in skills, or positioning, and thats a instanced MP, not an MMO. that game is like comparing Solitaire to an MMO. And its absolutely terrible. At this point i doubt ur credibility to compare anything and everything lol

O o I'm with Vile on this one. Methinks you've been spiking so hard you couldn't properly see when and how you're being hit. That's the only way I could see hitboxes being an issue as far as Vindictus is concerned. Sure they may not be perfect....but they're definitely not horrible.

I just hope you're not playing a Lann and trying to talk about hitboxes. That'll make me facepalm.

Not to mention I remember hearing far more people complaining about TERA's hitboxes than anyone EVER complained about Vindi's. (And I've been playing Vindi for a very long time. )

Anyway this topic isn't about Vindictus. Its also not about hitboxes.
Even if they were I'd like for things like Hitboxes to be repairable in a game---repairing things costs time. Time is money. Therefore the best way to start off a game that may or may not need some 'local balancing' when its on the ground (Because you all know they do it and half the people that whine are the cause.) is to have a strong payment method that continues to cater to the needs of what needs to be done and the machines it needs to be done on.

Contrary to popular gamer belief company machines + maintenance = Paying for various things to manage hardware, along with paying people to do their jobs.

Think about that carefully while looking at our cash shop to be, because it really should make a difference on your opinion---whether or not you think BnS is popular enough to support a method or not.

[Pokki]

B2P, P2P, F2P, seriously, as long as there's no P2W and the game doesn't get shut down due to playerbase
I DON'T CARE!
why don't we just wait and see? Discussing it and being at each others throats isn't going to make any difference to the payment model and already basically everything that could be said has been said, a dead horse is being kicked here IMO