[Ghastly]

I already spoke, no crusade on pc/console money back and forth here. Completely irrelevant and pulled from another thread.
Final warning.

[Kin-Pantsu88]

Doens't NCwest got any other great games?
It's not like every penny they earn from B&So only use for maintenance for the B&So servers.
Nope, it just end up in 1 big pot of gold, they use for all the games.

It's NCwest you pay, not B&So or GW2.

Just so you know, I go for a year subscription. If it's B2P or P2P, I don't care.

[Zef]

http://www.vg247.com...ck-into-profit/

well this post from july 2012 claims that gw2 accually made more money on launch then B&S (B&S 20% revenues, GW2 27%).
Ofc that was then. Question is how many more bought gw2 (for all i know at least 1 mil more), and how many subscriptions stayed/left/joined during that time for B&S.

While B&S is amazing for that 20% off one country alone (korea), it also needs to be noted gw2 is no smaller feat, given from their revenues it seemed NcSoft was nearly non-existent in western player's mind until gw2 hit.

So stating P2P is worlds more money generating then B2P is something i could elaborate on, but time will show.
Still there's two ends of that stick, and on mine (gamer's) it's unacceptable to go into P2P with CS.

The way i look at the two games is that B&S is like a hot chick everyone wants. She dresses provocative, you can't stop thinking about her, makes all men go crazy, but when it goes down to dating her she turns out costly as hell and not as fun as her body looks (tedious quest system).

Guild Wars 2 is like that nice pretty girl in glasses. She doesn't shine much at first, but when you get to know her, she's not that bad of a looker if dressed right (high settings), doesn't rip money off you on every turn, and is amazing fun to hang out with if you give her the chance (world events, jumping puzzles, world exploration, cow-a-pult!). That girl just grows on you, and she's yours, not a rental

Now will our miss chili pepper keep her bad habits or be more liveable with we'll see soon enough.

[BLöDSKääL]

No one said its World more in cash, it simply is a steadier income, as the subs come every month. with B2P, once u buy the game, you are not obliged to spend any money on the cashshop, where as with p2p, u pay a sub as well... thats not to say im dying to pay for a sub lol, just seems like a better system for them. if they made it cheaper than usual as well, for ex. 10$ instead of 15-20, that would come as a relief to many and would inspire them to actually sub.But we will see what they are gonna do in the end.

[Zef]

For them, sure;)
But there's me and other gamers on the other side of the rope pulling it our way:)

If there's no cash shop then p2p is acceptable given it's benefits for me. But if they try to sneak in microtransactions then i ask:
"What's in it for us?". Cause it smells like they get more money and we get more game breaking ideas in "return".

[Vile Samael]

BLöDSKääL, on Feb 01, 2013 - 9:18 AM, said:

No one said its World more in cash, it simply is a steadier income, as the subs come every month. with B2P, once u buy the game, you are not obliged to spend any money on the cashshop, where as with p2p, u pay a sub as well... thats not to say im dying to pay for a sub lol, just seems like a better system for them. if they made it cheaper than usual as well, for ex. 10$ instead of 15-20, that would come as a relief to many and would inspire them to actually sub.But we will see what they are gonna do in the end.

If they used this system, the largest argument against B2P would falter. The largest argument against it is "But those in the east would be upset because in the west we'll pay less!" Well, if they did this we'd pay less. Wouldn't they still get mad?

Famfrit, on Jan 31, 2013 - 2:53 AM, said:

If they made it so you paid $15 bucks, but as you played your time got used up, instead of paying for a whole month each time. I think that would be fairly acceptable :/

Oh right, I forgot to answer this hhehhehehe

That seems a bit better, actually. I'd have to make sure I had a bunch of money saved up for just in case I felt like playing or binging, though. It'd have an added sense of "oh jeez oh jeez how much time do I have left", but it's better than "oh jeez oh jeez I gotta get my money's worth". Also, would the extra time be dropped after each month, or would you keep it? How much time would $15 be worth? Would this amount have the same "Oh, that's worth the money" feel to everyone, or would people complain that it's too expensive?

This post has been edited by Vile Samael: Feb 01, 2013 - 8:50 PM

[BrandX]

Truthfully, I never saw how 50cents a day was to much money.

[Vile Samael]

BrandX, on Feb 01, 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

Truthfully, I never saw how 50cents a day was to much money.

It's not an issue of how much money for me, it's an issue of when I have to spend it. I've already explained how the whole icky obligation feeling goes, and a lot of people feel the same.

This post has been edited by Vile Samael: Feb 01, 2013 - 10:59 PM

[BLöDSKääL]

Vile Samael, on Feb 01, 2013 - 8:48 PM, said:

If they used this system, the largest argument against B2P would falter. The largest argument against it is "But those in the east would be upset because in the west we'll pay less!" Well, if they did this we'd pay less. Wouldn't they still get mad?


Oh right, I forgot to answer this hhehhehehe

That seems a bit better, actually. I'd have to make sure I had a bunch of money saved up for just in case I felt like playing or binging, though. It'd have an added sense of "oh jeez oh jeez how much time do I have left", but it's better than "oh jeez oh jeez I gotta get my money's worth". Also, would the extra time be dropped after each month, or would you keep it? How much time would $15 be worth? Would this amount have the same "Oh, that's worth the money" feel to everyone, or would people complain that it's too expensive?

pay as you go is the standard in S.Korea, they pay by the hour, not monthly like us. so technically, we are getting ripped off lol. in anycase it would be fair, because they want to promote the product and the population span in NA is far larger than S.Korea, so that way they are increasing the margin for profit. Plus it can be argued that its NCWest territory and they can do w.e they want with the pricing.

Zef, on Feb 01, 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

For them, sure;)
But there's me and other gamers on the other side of the rope pulling it our way:)

If there's no cash shop then p2p is acceptable given it's benefits for me. But if they try to sneak in microtransactions then i ask:
"What's in it for us?". Cause it smells like they get more money and we get more game breaking ideas in "return".

cash shop that offers items that give visual customization dont introduce game breaking mechanics in the game, so whether its there or not it really does not matter. it only gives you the benefit of making a very unique look for your character, which is a plus if nothing else.

[Rubedo]

Curious, doesn't the current CS shop in the P2P model of B&S only give visual additions as stated b4? Since costumes seem to have no effect on how your stats turn out because the "Amulet/Bo Pae" system, you don't really need to use the CS shop at all unless you actually have the money and see an item you find likable, this seems to be more for the player then for the company itself... if you buy something you really don't need or want then that's your fault

Also I much prefer P2P over F2P, a monthly sub of only 20 dollars or below is only a small portion of my paycheck (I make minimum wage atm) and as stated b4 it helps to avoid the just plain dumb folks who end up wondering into free games.

Now B2P is a good option but NCsoft will need a whole lot more money after the initial bubble bursts, and as such they might start resorting to P2W methods in order to get the money necessary that they put in. Now I realize that we aren't building a game from the ground up like they did in Korea but you still have to maintain the server, pay people for translating purposes, pay GMs, and other things that don't come to mind atm , so you'd want a large revenue in order to keep your game up. So the question remains will NCSoft still be getting money from B2P once it reaches a point where you have an average number of game purchases a month, or will they get more from a monthly sub? Also will NCSoft resort to spending more time on money making schemes if B2P doesn't end up working out? (IE P2W) Or will they be giving us the same effort they would as if we were subbing?

But really between P2P and B2P I would be happy just as long as the CS shop does not turn into a PW2 Shop, I like to be good at games based on skill, luck and hard earned gear. Not through buying your way up just because you have the money to.

[Zef]

A cashshop does not mean "visual clothing options", geez...i'm facedesking when reading posts saying that. Those options would be there without you having to cough up extra money for them, and in fact they should be there.

Cash shop in P2P is unacceptable for two major reasons:

1. Do your math people, seriously. How much money are they getting spoon fed with subs every month? Way WAY more then needed to keep those servers up, unless those servers and backups are made with pure gold hard drives and computer frames...

2. Seeing how much it costs to play (a lot more then other options unless you're a money spending maniac in F2P), you have every right to demand something F2P and B2P don't offer - that is an truly equal gaming ground for all. Those costumes in Cash Shop should be only obtainable via gameplay. Costumes, level, weapons, stats...all should be result of gameplay and player's dedication, validating their good looks and skills with player's work and not $. One of the main reasons games are fun are that everyone gets an equal start and same set of rules, without playing favourites. It's your dedication and skill that make the results not $.

Cash Shop is a leeway - it might be honest...or turn into p2w shit at any time. For F2P and B2P that can be justified - gotta earn money over time somewhow, given you don't charge for game, or charge once. And as long as it means free updates, and not P2W that is acceptable, especially for F2P. But P2P has a steady income, few "freeloaders" and no financial justification whatsoever for a Cash Shop, other then "i'm greedy". Too much shit is happening in gaming these days and i'm gonna take a stand here. It'll be fun to watch maybe but i'm not giving this game a dime if it's P2P with CS.

[Rubedo]

Zef, on Feb 03, 2013 - 3:24 AM, said:

A cashshop does not mean "visual clothing options", geez...i'm facedesking when reading posts saying that. Those options would be there without you having to cough up extra money for them, and in fact they should be there.

Cash shop in P2P is unacceptable for two major reasons:

1. Do your math people, seriously. How much money are they getting spoon fed with subs every month? Way WAY more then needed to keep those servers up, unless those servers and backups are made with pure gold hard drives and computer frames...

2. Seeing how much it costs to play (a lot more then other options unless you're a money spending maniac in F2P), you have every right to demand something F2P and B2P don't offer - that is an truly equal gaming ground for all. Those costumes in Cash Shop should be only obtainable via gameplay. Costumes, level, weapons, stats...all should be result of gameplay and player's dedication, validating their good looks and skills with player's work and not $. One of the main reasons games are fun are that everyone gets an equal start and same set of rules, without playing favourites. It's your dedication and skill that make the results not $.

Cash Shop is a leeway - it might be honest...or turn into p2w shit at any time. For F2P and B2P that can be justified - gotta earn money over time somewhow, given you don't charge for game, or charge once. And as long as it means free updates, and not P2W that is acceptable, especially for F2P. But P2P has a steady income, few "freeloaders" and no financial justification whatsoever for a Cash Shop, other then "i'm greedy". Too much shit is happening in gaming these days and i'm gonna take a stand here. It'll be fun to watch maybe but i'm not giving this game a dime if it's P2P with CS.

But would and should aren't applicable in this situation. Character Costumes in this game just change up the look of your character without doing anything to the stats, thereby making them a luxury, not a necessity.

When referring to Blade and Soul and not any other games, in retort to your points, the game already has great costumes you can farm off the world bosses. So as long as the cash shop has only costume type items then it goes back to the need/want point I made earlier, If it doesn't do anything for you stat wise you didn't really need it, if you find something later on that you like more then a cash shop item, then you didn't really want it.

With these arguments I'm starting to like the P2P model more then the B2P, if the few things I've learned about BnS' current CS shop are actually true, there is no real reason against them having the CS shop they have. If someone is so impulsive that they'd get something just because it's in the CS shop and waste THEIR money then that's THEIR problem, not the problem of the company OR the problem of the rest of the community

This post has been edited by Rubedo: Feb 03, 2013 - 1:05 PM

[BLöDSKääL]

People keep forgetting that MMO-making companies, just like any other company, makes these games to make profit out of it. They will always use the method which will bring most money to them at any given time. companies such as PWE take this to the literal meaning, and dont care about anything else but making the revenue, thus allowing P2W items in their cashshop, because thats the way they make excessive amounts of money ( due to their games being f2p, because lets get real, no one would pay for their games otherwise). NCSoft, and some other major companies that are compelled to keep the cash shops non game breaking mechanic-like, still want to make money, but they have an ideology to follow, and feel like their games are not just a whore that works on the corner, but an art piece they are proud to present and uphold, while making profit out of it. Thats why they have a cash shop that gives vanity items, items that other than looks, mean nothing, absolutely nothing in the mechanics of the game. The reason why a game such as Blade and Soul will never have a shop that is p2w, because then the quality of it will drop dramatically, and the fanbase will disperse. BnS is not WoW, it cannot pull of a stunt like that, hence why it wont be F2P for sure, and B2P most likely.

*Drum Roll*

This post has been edited by BLöDSKääL: Feb 03, 2013 - 2:45 PM

[Lady Estellise]

BLöDSKääL, on Feb 03, 2013 - 2:44 PM, said:

People keep forgetting that MMO-making companies, just like any other company, makes these games to make profit out of it. They will always use the method which will bring most money to them at any given time. companies such as PWE take this to the literal meaning, and dont care about anything else but making the revenue, thus allowing P2W items in their cashshop, because thats the way they make excessive amounts of money ( due to their games being f2p, because lets get real, no one would pay for their games otherwise). NCSoft, and some other major companies that are compelled to keep the cash shops non game breaking mechanic-like, still want to make money, but they have an ideology to follow, and feel like their games are not just a whore that works on the corner, but an art piece they are proud to present and uphold, while making profit out of it. Thats why they have a cash shop that gives vanity items, items that other than looks, mean nothing, absolutely nothing in the mechanics of the game. The reason why a game such as Blade and Soul will never have a shop that is p2w, because then the quality of it will drop dramatically, and the fanbase will disperse. BnS is not WoW, it cannot pull of a stunt like that, hence why it wont be F2P for sure, and B2P most likely.

*Drum Roll*

I concur. While any company's goal is to make money, the better companies DO actually care about their customer and the games they put out. Better quality, means more numbers, and more numbers means more cash. It's apparent they will do what's best for the game.
While I have no evidence and my own person preference is P2P, it seems to be leaning to B2P. Which I am 100% okay with.

[Spirits of Vengeance]

There are not many things that Guild Wars 2 did excellent but it's model was one of them, I vote for that. A lot of my friends are working jobs but don't want to spend hundreds of dollars a year on a game, many will dismiss it when they hear it is p2p but they all bought GW2 because it was pretty much a one time purchase for the first year till expansions start coming out.

It is a balance, does NC Soft want large spiked of money and more people playing the game or less people playing the game but with a constant stream of money.

This post has been edited by Spirits of Vengeance: Feb 03, 2013 - 5:52 PM

[BLöDSKääL]

well the thing about Guildwars2 is, they cant change the payment method. they started gw1 with B2P and stuck with it. if Gw2 was P2P, i would not buy it, because the quality is not there. BnS has the quality to be p2p and succeed, so selling themselves short on b2p is a step back, which im sure they dont wanna take. they just have to work on their marketing. otherwise the game will sell it self

[BrandX]

Spirits of Vengeance, on Feb 03, 2013 - 5:41 PM, said:

There are not many things that Guild Wars 2 did excellent but it's model was one of them, I vote for that. A lot of my friends are working jobs but don't want to spend hundreds of dollars a year on a game, many will dismiss it when they hear it is p2p but they all bought GW2 because it was pretty much a one time purchase for the first year till expansions start coming out.

It is a balance, does NC Soft want large spiked of money and more people playing the game or less people playing the game but with a constant stream of money.

It's only bad if one thinks they feel obligated to play just because they pay a subscription.

I bought a lifetime sub to a MMO when it first came out, played it for a month, and have no feeling what so ever to feeling obligated to play it.

On another MMO, I started out with friends playing, bought a year subscription, and when friends left for various reasons (mostly money reasons) I didn't feel obligated to play. Yeah, kinda sucky I did the year sub, but the only reason the playing stopped was because playing a MMO without a group of friends is boring (and for TERA, it was so easy to solo, that imo, its hard to find a good group of people to just quest with).

There's no reason to feel obligated to play, just because you paid a month sub. It's like ordering that big appetizer plate at a resturant and then being unable to finish your main meal, that then sits int he fridge if you take it home and end up throwing it out. :p

And I can't be the only one who's bought console games that went left unplayed or almost unplayed *stares at Borderlands and Borderlands 2* :p

Maybe it's that I'm old enough to remember arcades, where you could easily spend 20 dollars for a couple of hours of play, and see MMOs being so much cheaper than that :p

[Spirits of Vengeance]

BLöDSKääL, on Feb 03, 2013 - 5:52 PM, said:

well the thing about Guildwars2 is, they cant change the payment method. they started gw1 with B2P and stuck with it. if Gw2 was P2P, i would not buy it, because the quality is not there. BnS has the quality to be p2p and succeed, so selling themselves short on b2p is a step back, which im sure they dont wanna take. they just have to work on their marketing. otherwise the game will sell it self

That's very true, maybe they are redoing everything for overseas and that's why it's taking them so long to get the game to us BNS is successful with p2p in Asia right now but we do not know if it will be successful p2p over seas yet especially in a "recession", like Aion it may lose a bunch of players and become f2p. Who knows. Let's just pray they don't unnecessarily "westernize" key elements like they did in Aion ).

BrandX, on Feb 03, 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

It's only bad if one thinks they feel obligated to play just because they pay a subscription.

I bought a lifetime sub to a MMO when it first came out, played it for a month, and have no feeling what so ever to feeling obligated to play it.

On another MMO, I started out with friends playing, bought a year subscription, and when friends left for various reasons (mostly money reasons) I didn't feel obligated to play. Yeah, kinda sucky I did the year sub, but the only reason the playing stopped was because playing a MMO without a group of friends is boring (and for TERA, it was so easy to solo, that imo, its hard to find a good group of people to just quest with).

There's no reason to feel obligated to play, just because you paid a month sub. It's like ordering that big appetizer plate at a resturant and then being unable to finish your main meal, that then sits int he fridge if you take it home and end up throwing it out. :p

And I can't be the only one who's bought console games that went left unplayed or almost unplayed *stares at Borderlands and Borderlands 2* :p

Maybe it's that I'm old enough to remember arcades, where you could easily spend 20 dollars for a couple of hours of play, and see MMOs being so much cheaper than that :p

I just cannot bring myself to play an mmo solo, guilds really help alleviate this but I still prefer having real life friends that I can talk to about the game on our free time and not have them shrug their shoulders. Blade and Soul is definitely a game I am going to be touching ( ) and so want as many friends in as possible. It's not that I feel obligated, okay I do, if I have to work or study or vacation or whatever for three weeks straight and only get like 5 hours of playtime in yes I feel like I wasted a bit of money, call me greedy lol. There are one time purchase games out there that are good enough to be p2p and are not, but we all know how NC Soft Korea is when it comes to making money. Cha Ching! lol

PS: I played through BL1 and 2 twice each at first with my brother then with his friends for 4 players.

This post has been edited by Spirits of Vengeance: Feb 04, 2013 - 12:10 AM

[BrandX]

Spirits of Vengeance, on Feb 04, 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

It's not that I feel obligated, okay I do, if I have to work or study or vacation or whatever for three weeks straight and only get like 5 hours of playtime in yes I feel like I wasted a bit of money, call me greedy lol. There are one time purchase games out there that are good enough to be p2p and are not, but we all know how NC Soft Korea is when it comes to making money. Cha Ching! lol

Now see. 5 hours of game time totally beats the 20 dollars for 2 hours of game time in an arcade. :)

Guess it's perspective.

I'm not saying people should P2P if they don't want to. I just don't see the big problem with it like so many do.

I heard the hype of GW2 and being B2P and now all I hear is "It's dead and dying" though I know that isn't true, as my brother plays with a big group of people.

[BLöDSKääL]

gw2 is slightly empty due to everyone reaching lvl 80 now XD so its more of a routine to do Dungeons few times a day, rather than actively stay on, kinda like wow raid times