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#1
User is offline   Droughboi 

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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 3:49 AM

How's it going everyone, the names Droughboi and im new to these forums. I just had some topics on my mind that I wanted to discuss with other people who were familiar with blade and soul. I've been following blade and soul video's and news for quite some time now...-ish. I was having this conversation with a friend of mine earlier this week on this subject. Basically, the question is: "Do you think that game developers think outside of the box?" I love blade and soul in everything that it is so far, but I can't help but think that even though as great as a game this is; not enough thought goes into some things that could make the game so much greater. Let me try to provide an example.

-Now we all know without a doubt that blade and soul has incredible environments; and that they've given every player the ability to explore these places in their entirety.
Aside from the exploration aspect of all of that... whats the point? What's the point of running up a giant tree etc? Am I making sense? Let me try to clarify a bit... So I enter this area for the first time and it looks great. I explore everything; but now its all just..."There". Why not give players a REASON to climb these trees n stuff? Obviously this is easier said than done, but this is just an example. I'm also curious as to why there is no Day/Night feature...

-How about something that isn't very simple, but has been discussed tons of times in other games. Guild Halls/Headquaters. How would you all go about having the players utilize such a feature IF one were to be added? If you had an active role in the content that was added to the game, how would you make a Guild Hall a crucial and beneficial feature to all players in a guild? Some games have these features, but alas they just act as an empty relic with the guild name plopped on it, or some instance that can be accessed by a single NPC. I feel like a Guild Hall should be something that every player should be able to see and enter(with permission or something). Say you have the largest and most infamous guild on the server. Wouldn't it be cool if that guild had some huge awesome building that served as more than just a flag post that holds your guilds emblem? Something that would make other players revel in it's enthralling beauty want to be apart of? Obviously, this is easier said than done, but what do you all think? How would you all make a guild hall something players WANT to use?

So i've provided two examples to get the ball rolling, feel free to expand on mine or simply suggest your own. This is all simply an opinionated discussion. So, without further adieu, fire away!
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#2
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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 4:13 AM

Guildhalls have always been an unofficial part of MMOs, whenever my guild had a meeting we'd find a big enough room for everyone. It's also one of those traditional things you'd expect from an online game, where community plays a huge factor and people have to follow rules and there's a hierarchy in place.

I don't think the game needs it seeing how it's never really been in place out of the top MMOs out there in the western front anyway. The resources needed to keep it active won't be viable and guildhalls never really get used besides once a week for meetings traditionally. All people do now for guildhall meetings hop in vent and change the channel

Another thing players ask for is player housing but they rarely get them, MMOs are about traveling the world and seeing what's out there. I think inns are perfectly fine and having a home you're not going to visit very often will just take up space

This post has been edited by Mizuki: Dec 26, 2012 - 4:22 AM

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#3
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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 4:34 AM

View PostMizuki, on Dec 26, 2012 - 4:13 AM, said:

Guildhalls have always been an unofficial part of MMOs, whenever my guild had a meeting we'd find a big enough room for everyone. It's also one of those traditional things you'd expect from an online game, where community plays a huge factor and people have to follow rules and there's a hierarchy in place.

I don't think the game needs it seeing how it's never really been in place out of the top MMOs out there in the western front anyway. The resources needed to keep it active won't be viable and guildhalls never really get used besides once a week for meetings traditionally. All people do now for guildhall meetings hop in vent and change the channel

Another thing players ask for is player housing but they rarely get them, MMOs are about traveling the world and seeing what's out there. I think inns are perfectly fine and having a home you're not going to visit very often will just take up space


I think you went a little more in-depth than I was thinking. Aside from rules and the hierarchy... which really... truly never exist(not in any game i've played...) except for the guild master/ Jr masters or whatever. I know for a fact that I didn't explore 24/7 when I played half the MMO's I did. Half the time when I didn't grind or do quests etc but still wanted to play the game I'd find myself just sitting in the middle of a town talking to strangers. It could be something simple like logging out at your guild place for rested exp instead of just logging out in a field er something. As far as a meeting place... well honestly... meetings are stupid. Imo anything you talk about at a meeting can just be done in a chat like you said; so no I wouldn't even try to use a guild hall for something like that. Like I said, so much easier said than done.
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#4
User is offline   Mizuki 

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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 4:55 AM

I personally won't want to participate in any social activities when I'm playing the game unless I'm in a dungeon or questing, it's not my style and with this game especially where it gives me the freedom to traverse areas while flying, there's no way I'm going to want to stay in a building of any kind for whichever reason

Lots of the traditional MMO ideals are being thrown out which I love about Blade and Soul, I've had enough. Maybe others will like it but not me

If this game lets me, I'll log out in a tree way up in the sky somewhere

This game is being marketed at a certain crowd and I'm in it

Qing Gong 24 / 7

This post has been edited by Mizuki: Dec 26, 2012 - 5:03 AM

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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 7:09 AM

View PostDroughboi, on Dec 26, 2012 - 3:49 AM, said:


-Now we all know without a doubt that blade and soul has incredible environments; and that they've given every player the ability to explore these places in their entirety.
Aside from the exploration aspect of all of that... whats the point? What's the point of running up a giant tree etc? Am I making sense? Let me try to clarify a bit... So I enter this area for the first time and it looks great. I explore everything; but now its all just..."There". Why not give players a REASON to climb these trees n stuff? Obviously this is easier said than done, but this is just an example. I'm also curious as to why there is no Day/Night feature...


Honestly, them being there (the incredible, expansive environments) is reason enough for me to explore and continue to enjoy/appreciate them. Besides, there are quests that have you go to many different areas and utilize your abilities to run, jump, fight, etc.

The reason the incredible environments and the special abilities exist are for immersion purposes, I would say--and I honestly think they've pretty much done enough in that aspect. From there, players should use their imagination with what to do next... for example, everything and anything in any MMO game, no matter how horrendous it is, is 100x more fun with friends. In a game like Blade & Soul, you and your friends could have one killer Hide N' Seek game.

Also, I agree with you on the day/night feature... I feel like they could totally pull that off. A weather or season system would be cool, too, but maybe I'm asking for too much. Dx

This post has been edited by Kitsune: Dec 26, 2012 - 7:44 AM

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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 2:12 PM

The little towns, villages, and cities are great enough for me. Your guild can decide to always meet at a certain village, outpost, or town as your guild's unofficial place :yes:

B&S is too beautiful to spend so much time in a guild hall.
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#7
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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 2:25 PM

As an RPer, I find RP in guilds does much better if they have a place they can meet without outsiders just randomly popping in. And a strong RP community (even with different levels of RP) I think helps keep a MMO going.

This isn't to say the community can't adapt to not having one, just saying it's a nice feature, and it's one a top western mmo did have (CoH - which was in the top 10 for a long time).
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#8
User is offline   Mizuki 

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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 2:47 PM

I personally have no issues with community , I agree that it strengthens an MMO. However, when I play BnS I'm going to launch like a catapult out of the door and see what's out there since mechanics like Qing Gong are so fresh and new for western players
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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 2:56 PM

The way the game is now, I feel that they have to step up their game considerably. Blade & Soul feels more like a single player RPG focused on linearity with story with only a few multiplayer things like dungeons. From what I've seen from updates, there is still no "end-game" and the game just seems to be paused at level 45 with no direction, an unfinished story, and no reason to continue unless you enjoy PvP. The game does not reward exploration, there is very little to explore, because of the game's linear nature. There aren't many, if any at all, secret quests you can find by exploring.

I don't oppose guild halls, but I honestly don't think that they would be very useful to people in game as of this point.
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#10
User is offline   Mizuki 

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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 2:59 PM

Well when I'm exploring I'm not looking for quests, I just like looking at my surroundings.

I'm going to be taken in awe by BnS, this isn't my traditional MMO so i'm going to appreciate the game from the small to big things.

People that are already familiar with it have to remember that the US doesn't have anything like this as where it's more prevalent for you all

Games like Elsword Online, we're never going to see it while you guys can play it whenever you want

This post has been edited by Mizuki: Dec 26, 2012 - 3:04 PM

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#11
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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 4:15 PM

I don't think it's an issue of whether or not the US has something like it. It's more of an issue of longevity. When the game comes out in NA/EU, they will have it. What then, after they get used to it/tired of nothing new?
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#12
User is offline   Mizuki 

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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 4:20 PM

Well I'm going to trust the Executive Producer with his comment until I get to play

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Is Blade & Soul going to be a grinding game like some other MMOs?

Executive Producer James Bae said it best: "I assure you, Blade & Soul will never run out of content to keep players engaged in the game. This game will not be a repetitive grindfest."

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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 6:36 PM

View PostMizuki, on Dec 26, 2012 - 2:47 PM, said:

I personally have no issues with community , I agree that it strengthens an MMO. However, when I play BnS I'm going to launch like a catapult out of the door and see what's out there since mechanics like Qing Gong are so fresh and new for western players


How is a mechanic like Qing Gong new to players? It looks like a travel power. All of which CoH, CO and DCUO have and all western mmos.
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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 7:18 PM

View PostBrandX, on Dec 26, 2012 - 6:36 PM, said:

How is a mechanic like Qing Gong new to players? It looks like a travel power. All of which CoH, CO and DCUO have and all western mmos.


It's new to me, won't be for all
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#15
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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 9:46 PM

Lol everyone is kind of stuck on my examples xD! I didn't mean that the game NEEDED those features; They were just examples. I was hoping someone could provide other things that blade and soul could use etc.
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Posted Dec 26, 2012 - 9:52 PM

Most of the players here don't know what the game needs because NcSoft West has stated they're changing some things that work in Korea but don't work for their target audience
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Posted Dec 27, 2012 - 5:48 AM

I think most big developers believe they're doing things differently or they have a unique approach to whatever it is they do. Few of them set out with the goal of doing more of the same. Also your examples aren't really "thinking outside of the box". Thinking outside the box would be just that, THINKING in directions that are unorthodox or uncommon. Thinking "let's reward players for exploring/climbing stuff" isn't thinking outside the box, it's just regular old thinking of ways to improve. That's not a bad thing at all though, you're just mislabeling your examples.

Guild Wars 2 had jumping puzzles placed all throughout the world and at the end of these puzzles were chests with gear and other loot (that scaled with level). There were also various points spread across the map worth experience with more carrot on stick type rewards in place for full map exploration. I've read that there actually are "Qing Gong puzzles" in Blade and Soul. An idea being uncommon doesn't really make it something outside the box, just uncommon. While it's easy to think 'it'd be great if blank wasn't so" I'd suggest waiting to find out the full feature list before assuming to know the amount of thought (or lack thereof) involved.

Anywho, I personally never really found much point in putting too much resources into things like guild halls. Aion has a housing system right now and there are a set number of houses for all the playerbase to see. They require a weekly fee to keep ownership of and empty houses are auctioned off periodically. The same could easily be done with guild halls, but I think the issue is really; to what end? While there's no doubt many players would get a kick out of them, the fact is the market seems to be quite the minority and when it comes to development resources, developers will always gravitate towards pleasing as many people as possible whenever they set out to spend time and resources on something.

I'd like to see some sort of mass guild owned transportation maintenance sytem, like air or sea ships, with a PvP element added in. There may be an mmo out there like that, but if we're just tossing up random ideas for the sake of discussion there's mine. As for what's doable with Blade and Soul, I'd honestly love to see them add more story lines to the game that you could choose between (based of your characters background or race). Star Wars has a really good single player experience, as does Guild Wars 2. I like how mmos are starting to pay more attention to the story/solo aspect of the game. I'm not too familiar with what BnS has in store but it's certainly something doable in a future update.
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Posted Dec 27, 2012 - 7:33 AM

View PostMizuki, on Dec 26, 2012 - 4:55 AM, said:

Qing Gong 24 / 7


QFT, because it's true. Its one of the reasons why I wan't to play BnS even if Qing Gong points are just "Fancy Flight Paths" Watching your character fly through the air Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon style will never get old especially when your character, the environment, and animations look as good as they do in BnS.

View PostBrandX, on Dec 26, 2012 - 2:25 PM, said:

As an RPer, I find RP in guilds does much better if they have a place they can meet without outsiders just randomly popping in. And a strong RP community (even with different levels of RP) I think helps keep a MMO going.

This isn't to say the community can't adapt to not having one, just saying it's a nice feature, and it's one a top western mmo did have (CoH - which was in the top 10 for a long time).


Gonna QFT this as well because CoH's had a very in depth base building customizer and while it also had items you could place in your base as a practical purpose but if done well both in an engineering and aesthetic point of view it would add a hefty amount of immersion for RP players. In addition both Hero and Villain guilds could raid each other's bases.

This post has been edited by foxlight713: Dec 27, 2012 - 7:39 AM

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Posted Dec 27, 2012 - 10:00 PM

View PostBrotillian, on Dec 27, 2012 - 5:48 AM, said:

I think most big developers believe they're doing things differently or they have a unique approach to whatever it is they do. Few of them set out with the goal of doing more of the same. Also your examples aren't really "thinking outside of the box". Thinking outside the box would be just that, THINKING in directions that are unorthodox or uncommon. Thinking "let's reward players for exploring/climbing stuff" isn't thinking outside the box, it's just regular old thinking of ways to improve. That's not a bad thing at all though, you're just mislabeling your examples.

Guild Wars 2 had jumping puzzles placed all throughout the world and at the end of these puzzles were chests with gear and other loot (that scaled with level). There were also various points spread across the map worth experience with more carrot on stick type rewards in place for full map exploration. I've read that there actually are "Qing Gong puzzles" in Blade and Soul. An idea being uncommon doesn't really make it something outside the box, just uncommon. While it's easy to think 'it'd be great if blank wasn't so" I'd suggest waiting to find out the full feature list before assuming to know the amount of thought (or lack thereof) involved.

Anywho, I personally never really found much point in putting too much resources into things like guild halls. Aion has a housing system right now and there are a set number of houses for all the playerbase to see. They require a weekly fee to keep ownership of and empty houses are auctioned off periodically. The same could easily be done with guild halls, but I think the issue is really; to what end? While there's no doubt many players would get a kick out of them, the fact is the market seems to be quite the minority and when it comes to development resources, developers will always gravitate towards pleasing as many people as possible whenever they set out to spend time and resources on something.

I'd like to see some sort of mass guild owned transportation maintenance sytem, like air or sea ships, with a PvP element added in. There may be an mmo out there like that, but if we're just tossing up random ideas for the sake of discussion there's mine. As for what's doable with Blade and Soul, I'd honestly love to see them add more story lines to the game that you could choose between (based of your characters background or race). Star Wars has a really good single player experience, as does Guild Wars 2. I like how mmos are starting to pay more attention to the story/solo aspect of the game. I'm not too familiar with what BnS has in store but it's certainly something doable in a future update.


Using GW2 as a reference to my first example is not what i meant... I didn't mean that you should climb a tree and find loot. What I mean is making something else possible when you go in these trees except for just running through them... like fighting mobs in the trees...which isn't really outside the box, but you get it...? That isn't a reward, merely another feature. Kinda like AION's fighting while flying thing...-ish. I'm not saying that's what they should add, it was only an example of what I was trying to convey. AION's battle while flying thing doesn't really reward you in anyway, it just provides another way to enjoy the game by providing another risk/element to your normal fighting. I'm also not saying that that feature is unique. I wasn't stating that you should get a reward for exploring the environment; No, not what I meant at all lol. Thinking outside of the box-if it works- is improving in a sense... I'm not sure why you stated that those are two different things.

Seems like everyone is stuck on the whole "putting resources into the guild hall" thing. This is kind of what I mean when I say "think outside the box". Its not like its written in stone somewhere that you have to do everything that the other forumers stated above to manage a guild. Obviously it'd be hard doing it differently, but this is why I said its easier said than done.

I like your idea about the airships thing. I think FFXIV:ARR will be doing that, im not sure if it'll be a guild thing though.
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#20
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Posted Dec 27, 2012 - 11:38 PM

View Postfoxlight713, on Dec 27, 2012 - 7:33 AM, said:

QFT, because it's true. Its one of the reasons why I wan't to play BnS even if Qing Gong points are just "Fancy Flight Paths" Watching your character fly through the air Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon style will never get old especially when your character, the environment, and animations look as good as they do in BnS.



Gonna QFT this as well because CoH's had a very in depth base building customizer and while it also had items you could place in your base as a practical purpose but if done well both in an engineering and aesthetic point of view it would add a hefty amount of immersion for RP players. In addition both Hero and Villain guilds could raid each other's bases.


I'm not following you at all
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