[Ryochan]

Story was a case of not knowing how to switch it off, but OWPVP there would be no switching off, you'd be stuck in that same position. Dobok change helps in that situation. (Anyone remember the south park episode where the guy was wiping out all of the guys as soon as they kept respawning XDDDD)

[Zenek]

Dobok change can help in that situation, but what prevent situation like this:
Player A i ganked by players B and C.
Player A want revange and come back with player D
Players B and C switch to PvE dobok and spam bullshit on chanel to player A, who do not have any way to take revange because players B and C can stay in PvE doboks forever.
It remind me ridiculous situation from Tera - there was no dobok but safezone near safezone.

IMO much better solution would be permanent PvP status (or very long amount of time after first PvP contact) but with single safezone for each fraction in some main city/village where can spawn defeated players.
As far as I know this game is heavy instanced based, so this ridiculous protection seems very odd for me...

[Chronas]

Nique no Nihonto, on Dec 07, 2012 - 9:24 AM, said:

I'm with you on this front. If you gank me, you will get a return in spades. You kill me once, you will be camped for 2+ deaths. I will make the ratio favor me that day or the next and next.

You and I have the same concept of things.

As for myself, I might not gank first depending on time of day and my mood at the time. But should some poor bastard cut me down, prepare for a gang-rape in return - outnumbered or not. lolol! In Open world, there just is no such thing as fair play. It's just how the world works anymore, so you just learn to abandon honor for the revenge of kicking bloody dirt in your attacker's face.

I abandoned fair-play since Aion. You ask for 1v1's and it turns into 1v10 because they cried for help or they hide on the guards. No point in caring about sensibility then when everyone wants to be cheapasses :(

Zenek, on Dec 24, 2012 - 7:54 PM, said:

Dobok change can help in that situation, but what prevent situation like this:
Player A i ganked by players B and C.
Player A want revange and come back with player D
Players B and C switch to PvE dobok and spam bullshit on chanel to player A, who do not have any way to take revange because players B and C can stay in PvE doboks forever.
It remind me ridiculous situation from Tera - there was no dobok but safezone near safezone.

IMO much better solution would be permanent PvP status (or very long amount of time after first PvP contact) but with single safezone for each fraction in some main city/village where can spawn defeated players.
As far as I know this game is heavy instanced based, so this ridiculous protection seems very odd for me...

No kidding here. I wanted to pull my hair out whenever I get attacked by someone in Tera and either you kill them off and they come back with a group, or they run off to safezone to talk shit. Didn't help AT ALL that they would puss out and put healers in the safezone to keep everyone alive that way :/

What made me quit Tera in less than a month of playing was whenever we did guild wars, people would farm the lowbies for the points, or get ONE point in on some poor guy getting zergged 50 to 1 and then, OH CRAP! that legion is NOWHERE to be seen for the rest of the fight for an easy win -.-;

This post has been edited by Chronas: Dec 27, 2012 - 3:24 PM

[Zenek]

Chronas, on Dec 27, 2012 - 3:21 PM, said:

No kidding here. I wanted to pull my hair out whenever I get attacked by someone in Tera and either you kill them off and they come back with a group, or they run off to safezone to talk shit. Didn't help AT ALL that they would puss out and put healers in the safezone to keep everyone alive that way :/

What made me quit Tera in less than a month of playing was whenever we did guild wars, people would farm the lowbies for the points, or get ONE point in on some poor guy getting zergged 50 to 1 and then, OH CRAP! that legion is NOWHERE to be seen for the rest of the fight for an easy win -.-;

I do not kidding. Tera and B&S have same issue - too much protection from get ganked.

Because of dobok system you will not have save zones, but people will simply not use dobok if they will not have obvious advantage.

In B&S you will also have 50 vs 1 - it will be 50 carebears what use dobok in obvious situation vs lonely pvp-er who just want more or less fair PvP. And after gank him/her will put off them doboks.

This protections do not rly protect from get ganked, but allowing it for abuse the system and trolling normal players.

This post has been edited by Zenek: Dec 27, 2012 - 4:14 PM

[Janshi]

Zenek, on Dec 27, 2012 - 4:13 PM, said:

In B&S you will also have 50 vs 1 - it will be 50 carebears what use dobok in obvious situation vs lonely pvp-er who just want more or less fair PvP. And after gank him/her will put off them doboks.

This protections do not rly protect from get ganked, but allowing it for abuse the system and trolling normal players.

Pretty much this. Everyone who thinks the doboko system in BnS is a good open pvp system, she or he didn´t seriously try to do some open pvp in this game.
I currently doing lots of pvp during prime time in the last pvp camp; it´s really awful and stupid.
You gotta ganked by "hundreds" of ppl from the opposite faction. Their favourite tactic:
Grab you as lbm or fm (dumbest classes ever and especially lbm seems to be designed for easygoing or unskilled ppl) with chi choke and pull you to all the guards in their homebase or to the zerg and then they troll you with posting "lolololol". These suckers would never dare to fight you on a fair basis. But you can´t revenge it or beat the crap out of them if they aren´t have a zerg as backup. They just don´t put their doboko on...
Too much carebears in this world.

This post has been edited by Janshi: Dec 27, 2012 - 5:46 PM

[DayBreeze]

i would love to see PVE and PVP channels installed in the servers. PVE channels for people who only want to level up (including red quests) and no players can hit another player, even while doing red quests. PVP channels for pure PVP fun only, and even while wearing PVE suits your faction symbol should show up and make you vulnerable to anyone from other faction. so yea should just have the current pvp suits just cosmetic, players' PVP faction is saved on to the character profile anyway. oh and yes, the waiting time to be able to switch to a PVE channel should be 2 minutes since they last attacked a player. that would ensure plenty of revenge goes around, no hiding in safety.

[jokerstar]

Janshi, on Dec 27, 2012 - 5:35 PM, said:

Pretty much this. Everyone who thinks the doboko system in BnS is a good open pvp system, she or he didn´t seriously try to do some open pvp in this game.
I currently doing lots of pvp during prime time in the last pvp camp; it´s really awful and stupid.
You gotta ganked by "hundreds" of ppl from the opposite faction. Their favourite tactic:
Grab you as lbm or fm (dumbest classes ever and especially lbm seems to be designed for easygoing or unskilled ppl) with chi choke and pull you to all the guards in their homebase or to the zerg and then they troll you with posting "lolololol". These suckers would never dare to fight you on a fair basis. But you can´t revenge it or beat the crap out of them if they aren´t have a zerg as backup. They just don´t put their doboko on...
Too much carebears in this world.

i play lbm and i have to agree on the lbm comment. choke is a really retarded skill in pvp, especially as you can choke ppl in pvp without having to kd them first and that it cant really be blocked. cooldown is also way too short.

[Zenek]

I saw this choke only on movie - rly retarded design of skill...

DayBreeze, on Dec 27, 2012 - 6:37 PM, said:

i would love to see PVE and PVP channels installed in the servers.

Honestly I do not see reason to force play both group in the same server. There is always conflict between this groups. And solutions like this usualy hurt PvP the most - PvP is they way why PvP-ers play the game. It must be have consequences to have sence. PvP should never be "only for fun". It should be way of play the game, and it should bring emotions, negative also to make it sense.

And PvP ruleset simply must be harsh and open, only this way other players starting respect other players - "I can PK him/her, but he/she can take revenge and bring me troubles for few next days".

[Tashigi]

Nique no Nihonto, on Dec 07, 2012 - 9:00 AM, said:

It's funny to me how this thread contradicts the PvP poll thread where a majority wants Open world PvP. Hehehe. It's also funny how you mistake PvP promoted content for "broken" mechanics. Mistaking flawed zone design with grouped players just killing time in-game. It's not broken. The game is new so subscribers are scavenging as much content as they can until new ways to have fun is released. This is a lack of content issue and community behavior issue. The only thing broken are the players in the game.

That's because the vast majority of those replying on that thread, aren't PVP'ers. They think "PVE" with flags is "open world PVP" which is just lol-worthy.

[Spirits of Vengeance]

To be honest I was really hoping BnS would have 1v1 2v2 3v3, 5v5 and 10v10 arenas, not just 1v1 duels or lolwtf36v36 arenas.

For open world PvP there needs to be something worth fighting for like bonuses for people in your school or guild or whatever and really good gear and crafting materials you get from the area. Towers and castles you could capture and raise your flag to control an area could be fun later on down the road.

This post has been edited by Spirits of Vengeance: Jan 19, 2013 - 2:19 AM

[Aari]

Spirits of Vengeance, on Jan 19, 2013 - 2:16 AM, said:

To be honest I was really hoping BnS would have 1v1 2v2 3v3, 5v5 and 10v10 arenas, not just 1v1 duels or lolwtf36v36 arenas.

For open world PvP there needs to be something worth fighting for like bonuses for people in your school or guild or whatever and really good gear and crafting materials you get from the area. Towers and castles you could capture and raise your flag to control an area could be fun later on down the road.

BnS has 1on1 and 3on3. There are no 36vs36 like they announced they would introduce in the 7 Waves. I'd like to see something like Castles/Towers or the like as well but its not gonna happen, sadly.

[Zenek]

Maybe in future. Good done siege is thing what encourages to play the game. And NCsoft should know this the best - sieges from L2, just epic.

This post has been edited by Zenek: Jan 19, 2013 - 3:52 AM

[King File]

To be honest the dabok system is great for PvE servers... PvP should always be active on PvP servers on the other hand. Therefore they should have PvP and PvE server so people who enjoly PvP can play on a PvP and those who dont can play on a PvE server. So not some weird care bear..

Having PvP active all the time would make the game lots more fun and community active, there should be some sort of karma penalty system.

http://lineage2.stra...t/features/pvp/

[Ryochan]

Janshi, on Dec 27, 2012 - 5:35 PM, said:

Pretty much this. Everyone who thinks the doboko system in BnS is a good open pvp system, she or he didn´t seriously try to do some open pvp in this game.
I currently doing lots of pvp during prime time in the last pvp camp; it´s really awful and stupid.
You gotta ganked by "hundreds" of ppl from the opposite faction. Their favourite tactic:
Grab you as lbm or fm (dumbest classes ever and especially lbm seems to be designed for easygoing or unskilled ppl) with chi choke and pull you to all the guards in their homebase or to the zerg and then they troll you with posting "lolololol". These suckers would never dare to fight you on a fair basis. But you can´t revenge it or beat the crap out of them if they aren´t have a zerg as backup. They just don´t put their doboko on...
Too much carebears in this world.

Same thing that happens in "Open World" PVP. Especially Aion's. Only way to have a fair fight is if the opposing players agree to it, or in 1 v 1 arenas. The Dobok System stops ppl from griefing hardcore randomly which is good imo. Someone was complaining about how the opposing faction or w/e was camping a site killing the npc at their base, and just kept spawn killing (lol South Park anyone). But in this game, it gives you the option to spawn with the Dobok off so you can actually get away and avoid lololololololz. Fair system imo, but of course there are some flaws.

[Button]

This is what made me enjoy Vanilla World of Warcraft before it introduced battlegrounds. There's a foreboding sense of realism when knowing you were always in danger of being attacked. Levelling, it's both infuriating and satisfying to be ganking and to be ganked. Many MMORPGs nowadays have found a fix around this by creating PVE/PVP servers.

[muoibeo]

Lol but i dont think Bns have that much thing to do in Open world, no world boss, gathering. Most of the time you just grinding in dungeon, both for lvling and item.

[Nique no Nihonto]

Notturno, on Dec 15, 2012 - 3:23 PM, said:

The same logic applies to balance feedback; just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean it's ultimately meaningful or best for the game. Oftentimes people will lose to a certain combination or class, then automatically declare it "overpowered" or "imbalanced." Instead of trying the class out or trying to find ways to counter what they just lost to, they will immediately jump on the complaint bandwagon and incessantly whine until something happens. This results in less counter play and innovation, and more developer intervention that fundamentally alters the state of the game's balance. This happens in plenty of games, particularly MOBAs and MMORPGs.

The customer is not always right. I think healthy debate and discussion on updates is great for the community, and I think it also opens up opportunities for people to discover counter play and theorycraft. However, I think a lot of debate becomes destructive quite quickly due to the nature of people wanting their style of play to be "the best." I don't want unstructured PVP gutted because someone cannot fathom that groups perform better in those environments. Nor do I want particular classes or skills nerfed into the ground because people are unwilling to deviate from their particular style of play. I'd rather see a game that encourages counter play and player engagement, not a game that is constantly in flux because of swaying community opinion.

Your last 2 paragraphs basically restates what I have already pointed out in the post that you quoted yourself. Players will have opinions. Do not stifle that freedom to give it. It may be absurd or genius. The point is let them have it. The keyword I think you missed is "SIFT". The developers are smart. They will know the difference between legit and illegitamate complaints and redesign their game for the good points they accept and still meet their game's vision. You sound like a nazi talented at pointing out the obvious. You don't give developers any confidence so you just want the community to shut up for the most part. And the ones you will only accept to hear are the ones that agree with your opinion. Your conservative stance for change is similar to liberal views of it. Both are destructive and invades another person's enjoyment. So what's the solution to this? I think mine is the best solution. Let the community bitch all they want. Give confidence to the developers that they know what to do with it. They will know what to throw in the trash and which one not to. You are a customer. I'm pretty sure you are not right. Maybe I'm not either. But the developers are not customers. They are THE CREATORS! ;-)

[jokerstar]

theres like no pvp in the open world anymore. If you see someone on opposite faction most just ignore each other and go on doing PVE "PVP dailies". Some get the 10 kill ppl of other faction daily done by just trading(i kill you 10 times you kill me 10 times). Sometimes when my guild is bored we'll all go to the Misty forest pvp camp and just kill any blue people and npcs we see, and stand in front of the blue pvp camp(where every blue player and npc is dead) and take a nice picture ^^

[Masataka]

jokerstar, on Dec 27, 2012 - 7:03 PM, said:

i play lbm and i have to agree on the lbm comment. choke is a really retarded skill in pvp, especially as you can choke ppl in pvp without having to kd them first and that it cant really be blocked. cooldown is also way too short.

class is broken and they do nothing.they only knew how to remove ice stance skills for kfm(not nerf them for balance but remove them completely),remove stun from counter etc and for lbm they do nothing.nice balance they do.just like in Aion.they nerf gladiator and give OP dps/cc skills(class has more cc than if you combine all classes together and each update they get 1-2) for sorc that is already OP

This post has been edited by Masataka: Mar 04, 2013 - 10:25 AM

[Aari]

Masataka, on Mar 04, 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

class is broken and they do nothing.they only knew how to remove ice stance skills for kfm(not nerf them for balance but remove them completely),remove stun from counter etc and for lbm they do nothing.nice balance they do.just like in Aion.they nerf gladiator and give OP dps/cc skills(class has more cc than if you combine all classes together and each update they get 1-2) for sorc that is already OP

Its just how it is. There is usally 1 class that is preffered by the devs. In this game its Lyn Swordmaster, not much we can do about it tbh.