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      [Read Before Posting] Blade & Soul General FAQ

      Hello Blade & Soul fans, Welcome to the official Blade & Soul Dojo FAQ! This thread contains commonly asked questions about Blade & Soul's Western versions. Have a question? Check to see if it's posted here or use our forums search feature before creating a new thread. This thread will be updated at all times by any of the Dojo staff members. For additional information on Blade & Soul visit our wiki, or check out the official Blade & Soul West website. Table of Contents <a href="#1">What is Blade & Soul?</a> <a href="#2">Is there an official site for Blade & Soul's Western version?</a> <a href="#3">What is Blade & Soul's release date?</a> <a href="#4">Has Beta Testing started?</a> <a href="#5">What type of pay model will Blade & Soul use?</a> <a href="#6">Will the Western clients be censored?</a> <a href="#7">Where will the Western servers be located?</a> <a href="#8">Will there be Oceanic/SEA servers?</a> <a href="#9">Will my characters from the other regions be transferable to the Western versions?</a> <a href="#10">Will the Western version be region blocked?</a> <a href="#11">What are the playable races?</a> <a href="#12">Why did they change the name of the Kun race to Yun for the Western release?</a> <a href="#13">What are the playable classes?</a> <a href="#14">Are there race and class restrictions?</a> <a href="#15">What will be the Western versions initial level cap?</a> <a href="#16">Will there be a vigor/fatigue system the the Western versions?</a> <a href="#17">What systems will this game be released on?</a> <a href="#18">What are the required PC specs for Blade & Soul?</a> <a href="#19">I didn't catch one of Blade & Soul's Livestreams, what did I miss?</a> <a href="#20">Will there be founder packs for the Western versions?</a> <a href="#21">Will Blade & Soul be on Steam?</a> <a href="#22">Will Windows 10 be supported?</a> <a name="1">What is Blade & Soul?</a> Blade & Soul is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) by Korean game development studio, Team Bloodlust and is published by NCSOFT. <a name="2">Is there an official site for Blade & Soul's Western version?</a> You can find the official Blade & Soul West site here. <a name="3">What is Blade & Soul's release date?</a> The North American and European versions are currently set to be released on January 19th, 2016. Head Start for founder's pack owners will begin at 10:00am PST on January 15th, 2016, and name reservations for Disciple and Master pack owners will begin on January 11th, 2016. The game has already been officially released in the following regions: Korea: June 30, 2012
      China: November 28, 2013
      Japan: May 20, 2014
      Taiwan: November 20, 2014
      <a name="4">Has Beta Testing started?</a> Yes. CBT 1: Oct 29, 10am PDT - Nov 2, 10pm PDT [NA server only]* CBT 2: Nov 13, 10am PDT - Nov 16, 10pm PDT [NA/EU]** CBT 3: Nov 24, 10am PDT - Nov 30, 10pm PDT [NA/EU]** CBT 4: Dec 11, 10am PDT - Dec 14, 10pm PDT (English/French/German)[NA/EU]** CBT 5: Dec 18, 10am PDT - Dec 21, 10pm PDT (English/French/German)[NA/EU]** *NA servers will only support English. **EU servers will support English, French, and German; except on CBTs 1, 2, & 3. <a name="5">What type of pay model will Blade & Soul use?</a> Blade & Soul has been announced as a F2P (free-to-play) title for the West and will have no content limitations. They have also stated that the game will not be "pay-to-win". <a name="6">Will the Western clients be censored?</a> No. <a name="7">Where will the Western servers be located?</a> Blade & Soul's Western servers will be housed in the following location: North America: Dallas, Texas US
      Europe: Frankfurt, Germany.
      <a name="8">Will there be Oceanic/SEA servers?</a> There are currently no plans to support Oceanic/SEA servers. However, NCSOFT has stated that if the community shows enough interest they will reconsider. A petition has been created for NCSOFT to reconsider. <a name="9">Will my characters from the other regions be transferable to the Western versions?</a> No. Transferring accounts is not possible, but transferring the physical appearance of your character from other versions is possible through the profile screenshot function in Character Creation. <a name="10">Will the Western version be region blocked?</a> There are currently no plans for region blocking. <a name="11">What are the playable races?</a> Jin, Gon, Yun, Lyn. Click here for more information. <a name="12">Why did they change the name of the Kun race to Yun for the Western release?</a> In North America, the word "Kun" closely resembles a derogatory racial slur. <a name="13">What are the playable classes?</a> There are currently six confirmed playable classes for the Western versions. The "Warlock" class can be found in the KR, CN, JP and TW clients but have yet to be confirmed for the North American and European release.
      Assassin
      Blade Dancer
      Blade Master
      Destroyer
      Force Master
      Kung-Fu Master
      Summoner
      <a name="14">Are there race and class restrictions?</a> Yes. The playable races in Blade & Soul are indeed restricted to a select few classes. Below you'll find what you can play each race as. Jin: Assassin, Blade Master and Kung Fu Master
      Gon: Destroyer, Force Master and Kung Fu Master
      Lyn: Blade Dancer, Force Master and Summoner
      Yun: Blade Master, Force Master and Kung Fu Master
      <a name="15">What will be the Western versions initial level cap?</a> The initial level cap on release will be 45. <a name="16">Will there be a vigor/fatigue system the the Western versions?</a> No. <a name="17">What systems will this game be released on?</a> Blade & Soul will be released for Windows PC. <a name="18">What are the required PC specs for Blade & Soul?</a> Below are the PC specs taken from Blade & Soul's Korean client. [Minimum Spec] CPU : Intel Dual core/AMD Athlon 64X2 or better RAM : 2G or better VGA : nVidia Geforce 8600GT/AMD Radeon HD4600 or better HDD : 15GB OS : Windows XP (Service pack 2), Vista, Win7 (32bit / 64bit) DirectX : 9.0c [Recommended] CPU : Intel Quad core/AMD Phenom II X4 or better RAM : 4G or better VGA : nVidia Geforce 8800GTX / AMD Radeon HD4850 or better HDD : 15GB OS : Windows XP (Service pack 2), Vista, Win7 (64bit) DirectX : 9.0c <a name="19">I didn't catch one of Blade & Soul's Livestreams, what did I miss?</a> You can view all past broadcasts here. <a name="20">Will there be founder packs for the Western versions?</a> Yes, you can view their packages here. <a name="21">Will Blade & Soul be on Steam?</a> This has not yet been confirmed. <a name="22">Will Windows 10 be supported?</a> Yes. Updated: December 25th, 2015
    • Urbancowgurl777

      Dojo Rules & Guidelines   09/29/16

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kennywu54

To everyone wondering about PvP on a BnS Korean Server:

102 posts in this topic

As i written before: A good pvp game imo has all kind of pvp types. So no contradiction to your postings at all. Fact is, BnS hasn´t any kind of pvp types atm. Thats sad.

Sure, but might I usher you in the direction of the 7 Waves Update (http://www.bladeandsouldojo.com/news/92-blade-soul-7-waves-major-update/); they're AWARE of the content that people felt was lacking and they've listened by including both a BG PVP setting and a 1V1 PVP setting. :)

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You call it brainless "zegfest". But in mass PvP somehow are always clans what dominate it. They are always able to keep formation, know how to move on mass PvP and have good commanders. Something what you call brainless zergfest is PUG based PvP and BS done by poor clans. Mass PvP do not requires any special skill from single player, just know what to do and discipline. But it requires much more team play, strategy, tactic and coordination than any other of PvP types - are you sure thing what requires strategy and tactic is that "brainless"?

And once again - that is massively multiplayer online game.

WoW... is it have any PvP except BG?? I do not think that is good example of mass PvP game. In Lineage2 I was in 500+ vs 500+ sieges - and that was epic. I never had so much fun from MMO as from mass PvP in L2.

You and Janshi are talking about two diffrent types of massPvP in my opinion.

You are talking about a siege mode, there you need a lot of tactics and coordination that is right. Me and Janshi loved War of Empirium in Ragnarok Online. It was so much fun and you needed a lot of Skill to defend a castle against 80-200 people with only a few players or to run down the defense of a good guild.

But the 36vs36 Arena won't have something like castles or something. Perhaps some defending points like in TERA (but those bgs don't need so much tactic, thats only zergfest). but you won't have a whole area to defend where you can build up a big defense and may fall back to the next defending point before you loose a position completely.

I hope you understand what I was trying to explain xD.

A good siegemode, that is something what I miss in every mmo that was published the last years :(.

Sure, but might I usher you in the direction of the 7 Waves Update (http://www.bladeands...s-major-update/); they're AWARE of the content that people felt was lacking and they've listened by including both a BG PVP setting and a 1V1 PVP setting. :)

That's right but you didn't read all of Janshis comments. For a 1vs1 Arena you will need 1vs1 balance which doesn't exist (yes I only compare 2 players with same skill, I know you can beat another player with low skill although he has a class that must beat me).

So he is looking forward to see an Arena with a small group of players like 3vs3 6vs6 or something, not 36vs36.

Edited by Sorachan
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That's right but you didn't read all of Janshis comments. For a 1vs1 Arena you will need 1vs1 balance which doesn't exist (yes I only compare 2 players with same skill, I know you can beat another player with low skill although he has a class that must beat me).

So he is looking forward to see an Arena with a small group of players like 3vs3 6vs6 or something, not 36vs36.

Don't make baseless assumptions about what I have and have not read, that's just silly. :)

My POINT was that if they're willing to give people the ability to have a larger, more structured PVP outlet in the form of BGs (as opposed to the current faction warfare) as well as the option to duel another player in a 1V1, who's to say that they DON'T have plans for future group based PVP (especially by the time it releases in the West)? I'd rather them take baby steps personally.

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Don't make baseless assumptions about what I have and have not read, that's just silly. :)

My POINT was that if they're willing to give people the ability to have a larger, more structured PVP outlet in the form of BGs (as opposed to the current faction warfare) as well as the option to duel another player in a 1V1, who's to say that they DON'T have plans for future group based PVP (especially by the time it releases in the West)? I'd rather them take baby steps personally.

A larger PVP outlet is almost meaningless if it's just another 'zerg' outlet, though at least you will have your own zerg. But that will remain to be seen on how structured it is and how much cooperation it enforces. 36 is a fairly large number - so it's easy for me to see it falling into that zerg vs zerg catagory. However, I can easily see 'stacked' teams becoming a problem and one side quitting if they see it being hopeless, which doesn't help in the pvp content department.

And the point right now about 1v1 is that there is no 1v1 balance, so unless they start balancing classes for 1v1, nothing will be different by the time the 1v1 arena is implemented.

As for 1v1 duels, they 'technically' exist, anyone can wear one of those other faction doboks and duel, but unless in a remote area you can be interrupted by anyone, that's all.

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A larger PVP outlet is almost meaningless if it's just another 'zerg' outlet, though at least you will have your own zerg. But that will remain to be seen on how structured it is and how much cooperation it enforces. 36 is a fairly large number - so it's easy for me to see it falling into that zerg vs zerg catagory. However, I can easily see 'stacked' teams becoming a problem and one side quitting if they see it being hopeless, which doesn't help in the pvp content department.

I'm simply saying that it's nice that the framework for structured PVP environments exists and that they're interested in developing it further. :)

And the point right now about 1v1 is that there is no 1v1 balance, so unless they start balancing classes for 1v1, nothing will be different by the time the 1v1 arena is implemented.

I don't personally care about balance 1V1 because that's retarded (not to mention who really balances for 1V1 SUCCESSFULLY?) You end up with homogenized classes that are meaningless. It's a COMPLETELY different story if they're wanting to include rewards via the 1V1 arena. Then, yeah, I'd be a little concerned. I feel like 1V1 Arena is BNS's answer to allowing player duels in order to formulate strategies for use in more meaningful PVP.

As for 1v1 duels, they 'technically' exist, anyone can wear one of those other faction doboks and duel, but unless in a remote area you can be interrupted by anyone, that's all.

Sure, but if I wanted to duel a guildmate I'd have to drop guild, change faction, and lose my rank. Barring the fact that that's completely inefficient, it's certainly not worth it.

Edited by spencerBAXLEY
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Homogenization is not a bad word fyi. It's not a bad idea in general either for a PvP focused game. WOW community gave that word a bad rep. And rep almost always divert people from the truth.

...that there is no SPOON!

Edited by Nique no Nihonto
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Homogenization is not a bad word fyi. It's not a bad idea in general either for a PvP focused game. WOW community gave that word a bad rep. And rep almost always divert people from the truth.

...that there is no SPOON!

I find homogenization of classes to be really awful personally. It makes nothing unique. It becomes more "what color spells should I have" and less "what role should I perform". It's extremely boring TBH.

"What DPS should we bring?"

"Oh it doesn't matter, they all have CC now and comparable DPS."

But really though, what game is balanced 1V1? Because I'd like to give a whirl.

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I find homogenization of classes to be really awful personally. It makes nothing unique. It becomes more "what color spells should I have" and less "what role should I perform". It's extremely boring TBH.

"What DPS should we bring?"

"Oh it doesn't matter, they all have CC now and comparable DPS."

But really though, what game is balanced 1V1? Because I'd like to give a whirl.

And that's exactly why I say the community is at fault. You want varieties in the mechanical and impact level so that it's exciting yet you want balance. I just don't get it. That's a logic paradox. Maybe I'm assuming too much that we understand the word "balance" the same way. In my version, it means between 2 competitors, one does not hold an advantage over the other within the game mechanics.

But really though, what game is balanced 1V1? Because I'd like to give a whirl.

You have tons. Try almost any fps in multiplayer history.

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And that's exactly why I say the community is at fault. You want varieties in the mechanical and impact level so that it's exciting yet you want balance. I just don't get it. That's a logic paradox. Maybe I'm assuming too much that we understand the word "balance" the same way. In my version, it means between 2 competitors, one does not hold an advantage over the other within the game mechanics.

I never said that. I'm the one who DOESN'T want them to balance for 1V1 because that's stupid, remember? In my version of balance there are merely clear counters. There should just never be a class that sits on top of the pile.

You have tons. Try almost any fps in multiplayer history.

Wrong genre; try again. We're talking specifically MMORPG. ;)

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Sure, but if I wanted to duel a guildmate I'd have to drop guild, change faction, and lose my rank. Barring the fact that that's completely inefficient, it's certainly not worth it.

.... or you could put on your pirate suit and your guildmate can put on the bamboo army suit and you can slap each other to your satisfaction.

trying to balance classes for group pvp is silly. 1 vs 1 balancing is far more logical. destroyers stand clearly at the top in group fights, if you balanced classes for group fights (all other classes buffed except destroyer) you would see destroyers struggle in 1 vs 1. let the group fights be the gong show that it is. balance the game for duels.

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Wrong genre; try again. We're talking specifically MMORPG. ;)

you opened up a weak spot. in pvp, i take it and stab it. be specific when debating with me :)

.... or you could put on your pirate suit and your guildmate can put on the bamboo army suit and you can slap each other to your satisfaction.

trying to balance classes for group pvp is silly. 1 vs 1 balancing is far more logical. destroyers stand clearly at the top in group fights, if you balanced classes for group fights (all other classes buffed except destroyer) you would see destroyers struggle in 1 vs 1. let the group fights be the gong show that it is. balance the game for duels.

i agree with this one. with B&S's basic design (no healers or tanks), balancing 1v1 should not be a problem. you (Mr. Baxley) are judging B&S's by placing it on a pile of NON-SIMILAR MMO's. Apples and Oranges mechanics-wise. those other MMO's focused on MvM PvP because they had to, they had healers. They argued that 1v1 balancing is impossible. Well, duh! Of course it is!

In my version of balance there are merely clear counters. There should just never be a class that sits on top of the pile.

I think I get it now. You want a PVP WOW clone. Maybe a Burning Crusade version? Rogues were counters to most Healers (stun locks and poisons to reduce healing). Feral Druids were counters to Fear casters (shadow priests and warlocks). Hunters supposedly counters for Rogues because of flare and stealth detection and range dps. Did Mages have counters? Best I could think of is probably a Warrior due to slows, stuns, and fear and they gave them a skill to break the ice tomb.

If that's the case, I really think you should find another game. I'm saying that the nicest way possible. You won't enjoy this one. Counters is the epitome of unbalanced 1v1.

Edited by Nique no Nihonto
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But the 36vs36 Arena won't have something like castles or something. Perhaps some defending points like in TERA (but those bgs don't need so much tactic, thats only zergfest). but you won't have a whole area to defend where you can build up a big defense and may fall back to the next defending point before you loose a position completely.

I hope you understand what I was trying to explain xD.

That is depend how this 36 vs 36 is done. If it allow to join as 36 premade - you can use same tactics and strategy as in siege or OWPvP. If that is PUG based BS as in Tera, then I do agree - it going to be brainless zergfest.

F****... I miss old good mass PvP from Lineage 2 (C0-C6) :(

trying to balance classes for group pvp is silly. 1 vs 1 balancing is far more logical. destroyers stand clearly at the top in group fights, if you balanced classes for group fights (all other classes buffed except destroyer) you would see destroyers struggle in 1 vs 1. let the group fights be the gong show that it is. balance the game for duels.

And in 1vs1 balance, in group PvP range DPS would be compltly destroy other classes. For 1v1 we have games like Tekken, SC, MK, VF or DoA. And I think we talk about massively multiplaer game? What is the point of play MMO for duels? 0,o

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And in 1vs1 balance, in group PvP range DPS would be compltly destroy other classes.

explain. you haven't done much to prove how a force master, whose main attacks are single target fireballs, not AOE cannons, can overwhelm a group.

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Single targets, but range. They are not exposed to attacks as melee. It give huge tactic/strategy advantage during all group PvP. Especially in game without healers where any kind of range spike is simply unstoppable.

+ this broken sapphire gem what give them guaranteed DMG or DMG + CC.

Edited by Zenek
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I really don´t understand why you think open pvp is hurt if you try to prevent low level killing. For example Aion: I know there were lots of funny guys, for them there wasn´t a bigger satisfaction than rifting and killing low level ppl with superior gear / level. You never saw them in the abyss and if you encountered them in the dredgion they were completely destroyed.

On the other side, on our Server Thor, we had absolutely fantastic fights in the upper abyss and in the core (besides the fortress sieges). These fights were between ppl of the same level (of course not gear) and no one was leveling there. So what´s the problem?

You´ll only have to introduce areas which attracts all highlevel players. Areas like this could be designed that there are monster which drops very valuable items, worldbosses etc.

To avoiding misunderstandings: I´m talking about Aion pre 2.0.

The duel arena and the 36 vs 36 "battleground" are right steps with regard to more pvp content. But I hope more will come.

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I had a reply to everything, but screw it. We're simply going to continue beating a dead horse, so I'll simply agree to disagree and leave it at that.

The bottom line of what I was getting at is that balancing 1V1 doesn't translate to anything other than 1V1 scenarios (which aren't all that exist because the last time I checked it's an MMO) and dumbs down the game as a whole. 40 1V1s are not the same as 40V40; it simply doesn't scale like you're thinking that it will.

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I had a reply to everything, but screw it. We're simply going to continue beating a dead horse, so I'll simply agree to disagree and leave it at that.

The bottom line of what I was getting at is that balancing 1V1 doesn't translate to anything other than 1V1 scenarios (which aren't all that exist because the last time I checked it's an MMO) and dumbs down the game as a whole. 40 1V1s are not the same as 40V40; it simply doesn't scale like you're thinking that it will.

Please explain with details how you think it won't scale paired with how developers are restricted or limited to fix it. I'm really seriously curious.

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Sure, but if I wanted to duel a guildmate I'd have to drop guild, change faction, and lose my rank. Barring the fact that that's completely inefficient, it's certainly not worth it.

No you wouldn't... there are 6 or so faction doboks, I don't recall how many, but there are several lesser doboks you can use to 'duel' without changing your main faciton. I don't know how to explain this better, but you don't lose rank or anything of the sort, since it can be done with doboks that ARE NOT your main faction doboks. There are other dobok sets that are considered 'pvp' doboks.

Looks like this thread exploded, I have some reading to do >.>

Edit to add to my post:

About my original reply, I was trying my best to sum up what I thought the others were trying to say.

I haven't pvp'd in BnS as much as others so I don't really have a strong opinion about balance. My only point is that if the devs are going to implement content, there should be consideration towards balance based on that content. If there is going to be a 1v1 area, balance should be considered for 1v1s. If there is going to be a 36vs36, group balance should also be considered. But that is far out of my (or our, I'm sure) control.

About battlegrounds, I don't know that it's the direction I personally want, I would prefer a game to focus on an OWPVP system. But, if battlegrounds is what we're getting it's better than no pvp content. In that respect, I have to agree that it's a move in the right direction.

Edited by Taekyu
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I really don´t understand why you think open pvp is hurt if you try to prevent low level killing.

Because that is not longer open.

Where are you want put borders? Or completly safe zones? How are you want prevent abuse this limits?

And Aion&rifts - lowbie killing was small part of this event. Most time it was very good mass PvP with people on all possible lvl. Somehow this game died directly after remove rifts + some other idiotic changes with abbys points.

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I am not sure what to think about this thread, but it's somewhere between comical and depressing. I think there's a lot of misconceptions about player versus player content in MMORPGs, and this thread has left me somewhat confused on how exactly to address the topic. I'll try my best, but overall my interjection is going to be rather critical of a lot of attitudes expressed in this thread.

As a disclaimer, this is just opinion and philosophy from years of MMORPG experience. I have not played Blade & Soul and have limited knowledge on the current game systems and balance.

On Player Versus Player

I think one of the core things to remember about player versus player content is that in most mainstream MMORPGs, the content is entirely voluntary. Nobody forces you to engage in the content, and you take your own risks by deciding to participate, depending on the structure of the game. Some games have player versus player systems built purely for bragging rights, others offer exclusive gear, or something in between. Point being, usually player versus player (PVP) and player versus environment (PVE) are separate entities with their own systems that do not require crossover from players.

Now, when it comes to player versus player content, we can further divide that content into two different categories; structured PVP and unstructured PVP.

Structured PVP consists of any content with matchmaking, voluntary participation, and defined rules. Dueling, battlegrounds, or any sort of pre-arranged PVP would fall into the structured PVP category. These types of engagements usually have a "meta game" that is either stagnant or fluid depending on the competitive nature of the game; certain team compositions, item builds, skill builds, or matchup responses dictate how the PVP flows. There are often rules established, either by game systems or by mutual agreement from participants.

Unstructured PVP is often a misunderstood beast when it comes to MMORPGs. Unstructured PVP is entirely voluntary in participation, specifically in Blade & Soul, since you implicitly agree to participation by wearing a PVP dobok. Unstructured PVP favors those who are organized and roaming in groups, and is often more chaotic in nature. While some aspects of structured PVP meta game carry over into unstructured PVP, typically those who are more organized with more participants will win engagements. There are no rules, nothing stops someone from bringing ten people to kill one person.

On Unstructured Player Versus Player

There seems to be a misconception in this thread about how unstructured PVP works. There is no obligation to you or anyone for a fair fight. There is no such thing as "honor" or "justice" in unstructured PVP. It is a kill or be killed situation. You voluntarily chose to participate in the content, so you have to accept the results of your choice, whether that results in a kill or a death. To demand a fair fight or even numbers is an absurd notion in unstructured PVP, that is not how it works. There are no laws or rules that dictate what you can and cannot do in regards to a fight.

In fact, there is a particular gaming term in place for people who insist on placing their own artificial rules or limitations on themselves in PVP; a scrub. A scrub is someone who considers other players "cheap" or "dishonorable" for what they perceive to be unbalanced mechanics or unfair tactics. Someone who plays to win will abuse every game mechanic, use the strongest combination of gear and skills, and use the strongest class to make sure they have every advantage. Common complaints from scrubs include; camping, bringing more people to a PVP match, using "imbalanced" or "overpowered" weapons or classes, or abusing certain combinations of skills. Essentially, a scrub places artificial limitations on themselves based on their perception of fairness.

By stating that other people are dishonorable or bad because they use a numbers advantage in unstructured PVP, would classically be defined as scrub behavior. It is an absurd notion to demand people to play by your perceptions or rules of fairness in a voluntary PVP system. There is nothing to argue; if you die to a larger group, you lose and they win. There is nothing inherently unfair or broken about this, that is the nature of unstructured PVP. It is, in fact, called unstructured PVP because there are no rules that dictate what is allowed and not allowed. The end goal is to kill players by any means you deem necessary. If you cannot handle this reality, then there are structured PVP options to satisfy your need for something "fair." To me, it sounds like Blade & Soul have a perfectly functional unstructured PVP system.

On Balance

One last point I wanted to touch on was the idea of balance in a game. Balance is a completely subjective opinion, often resulting in perceptions unique to every single player or developer. The balance in power for any game is constantly shifting and evolving based on content updates and patches, and will never be "perfect." While one can argue and debate the nature of balance, which is a perfectly valid engagement and noble discussion worthy of attention, it is ultimately futile in the game. When you are participating in PVP, balance is a completely irrelevant factor. Your perception of balance does not change the outcome of a fight; if that person beat you using something you perceived as not balanced, then they are playing to win. To combat this, you either need to abuse the same mechanics available to you, or you theorycraft ways to counter it.

I don't believe balance will ever be perfect, and I don't believe anything is unbeatable. The meta game in every game shifts based on discovery and trial of the players. A truly skilled player is innovative and will look for these particularly strong combinations or builds, they are playing to win. Someone who spends their time complaining and not adapting is not playing to win, and will be labeled as a "scrub." It is completely worthwhile and admirable to debate the game, but I think mindless droning and complaining is a worthless endeavor and ultimately childish in nature. The point I am trying to establish is that balance is subjective and not subject to your particular opinion on how things should be changed. You either adapt or lose, it's as simple as that.

My Conclusion

I don't think Blade & Soul's PVP systems are imbalanced or broken, I think they are working as intended. I think a big part of what influences opinions on PVP balance are player biases and perceptions of what is fair.

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Because that is not longer open.

Where are you want put borders? Or completly safe zones? How are you want prevent abuse this limits?

And Aion&rifts - lowbie killing was small part of this event. Most time it was very good mass PvP with people on all possible lvl. Somehow this game died directly after remove rifts + some other idiotic changes with abbys points.

That´s a matter of opinion. In the end for bns thats nothing we have concern about imo, I really doubt they gonna change something in the open pvp in this game.

Though i have to correct myself, you can have nice battles in the pvp camps if you find ppl who really want to fight and not running home like crybabys and bring back a whole zerg. Yesterday i fought with my summoner partner against two koreans for almost 1 hour in the last pvp camp, no one other interrupted. That was really fun and challenging.

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I am not sure what to think about this thread, but it's somewhere between comical and depressing. I think there's a lot of misconceptions about player versus player content in MMORPGs, and this thread has left me somewhat confused on how exactly to address the topic. I'll try my best, but overall my interjection is going to be rather critical of a lot of attitudes expressed in this thread.

As a disclaimer, this is just opinion and philosophy from years of MMORPG experience. I have not played Blade & Soul and have limited knowledge on the current game systems and balance.

On Player Versus Player

I think one of the core things to remember about player versus player content is that in most mainstream MMORPGs, the content is entirely voluntary. Nobody forces you to engage in the content, and you take your own risks by deciding to participate, depending on the structure of the game. Some games have player versus player systems built purely for bragging rights, others offer exclusive gear, or something in between. Point being, usually player versus player (PVP) and player versus environment (PVE) are separate entities with their own systems that do not require crossover from players.

Now, when it comes to player versus player content, we can further divide that content into two different categories; structured PVP and unstructured PVP.

Structured PVP consists of any content with matchmaking, voluntary participation, and defined rules. Dueling, battlegrounds, or any sort of pre-arranged PVP would fall into the structured PVP category. These types of engagements usually have a "meta game" that is either stagnant or fluid depending on the competitive nature of the game; certain team compositions, item builds, skill builds, or matchup responses dictate how the PVP flows. There are often rules established, either by game systems or by mutual agreement from participants.

Unstructured PVP is often a misunderstood beast when it comes to MMORPGs. Unstructured PVP is entirely voluntary in participation, specifically in Blade & Soul, since you implicitly agree to participation by wearing a PVP dobok. Unstructured PVP favors those who are organized and roaming in groups, and is often more chaotic in nature. While some aspects of structured PVP meta game carry over into unstructured PVP, typically those who are more organized with more participants will win engagements. There are no rules, nothing stops someone from bringing ten people to kill one person.

On Unstructured Player Versus Player

There seems to be a misconception in this thread about how unstructured PVP works. There is no obligation to you or anyone for a fair fight. There is no such thing as "honor" or "justice" in unstructured PVP. It is a kill or be killed situation. You voluntarily chose to participate in the content, so you have to accept the results of your choice, whether that results in a kill or a death. To demand a fair fight or even numbers is an absurd notion in unstructured PVP, that is not how it works. There are no laws or rules that dictate what you can and cannot do in regards to a fight.

In fact, there is a particular gaming term in place for people who insist on placing their own artificial rules or limitations on themselves in PVP; a scrub. A scrub is someone who considers other players "cheap" or "dishonorable" for what they perceive to be unbalanced mechanics or unfair tactics. Someone who plays to win will abuse every game mechanic, use the strongest combination of gear and skills, and use the strongest class to make sure they have every advantage. Common complaints from scrubs include; camping, bringing more people to a PVP match, using "imbalanced" or "overpowered" weapons or classes, or abusing certain combinations of skills. Essentially, a scrub places artificial limitations on themselves based on their perception of fairness.

By stating that other people are dishonorable or bad because they use a numbers advantage in unstructured PVP, would classically be defined as scrub behavior. It is an absurd notion to demand people to play by your perceptions or rules of fairness in a voluntary PVP system. There is nothing to argue; if you die to a larger group, you lose and they win. There is nothing inherently unfair or broken about this, that is the nature of unstructured PVP. It is, in fact, called unstructured PVP because there are no rules that dictate what is allowed and not allowed. The end goal is to kill players by any means you deem necessary. If you cannot handle this reality, then there are structured PVP options to satisfy your need for something "fair." To me, it sounds like Blade & Soul have a perfectly functional unstructured PVP system.

On Balance

One last point I wanted to touch on was the idea of balance in a game. Balance is a completely subjective opinion, often resulting in perceptions unique to every single player or developer. The balance in power for any game is constantly shifting and evolving based on content updates and patches, and will never be "perfect." While one can argue and debate the nature of balance, which is a perfectly valid engagement and noble discussion worthy of attention, it is ultimately futile in the game. When you are participating in PVP, balance is a completely irrelevant factor. Your perception of balance does not change the outcome of a fight; if that person beat you using something you perceived as not balanced, then they are playing to win. To combat this, you either need to abuse the same mechanics available to you, or you theorycraft ways to counter it.

I don't believe balance will ever be perfect, and I don't believe anything is unbeatable. The meta game in every game shifts based on discovery and trial of the players. A truly skilled player is innovative and will look for these particularly strong combinations or builds, they are playing to win. Someone who spends their time complaining and not adapting is not playing to win, and will be labeled as a "scrub." It is completely worthwhile and admirable to debate the game, but I think mindless droning and complaining is a worthless endeavor and ultimately childish in nature. The point I am trying to establish is that balance is subjective and not subject to your particular opinion on how things should be changed. You either adapt or lose, it's as simple as that.

My Conclusion

I don't think Blade & Soul's PVP systems are imbalanced or broken, I think they are working as intended. I think a big part of what influences opinions on PVP balance are player biases and perceptions of what is fair.

Eloquent but reads like an online WIKI encyclopedia. These things you state are already known. For example, this comparison between structured and unstructured PvP is obvious. However, this discussion, is not about the current perception you have of the limits of MMO design and people should just accept what's fed to them. Games get better through player feedback. It doesn't matter If they are legit or not, over-emotional or not. They pay the developers to listen and sift through these ideas. You think they don't value our ideas? We are the customers! They work for us. Ever heard of beta testers? Another good example are the add-ons of WOW. players created what was lacking in the game. Some got as popular as the game itself. WOW had to bake it in the game in patched and expansions. Examples are threat meters, item levels, flashing icons for skill and spell procs. The point is, it's counter productive to discourage these discussions.

In conclusion, in PvP or pve in an MMO anything is possible. Its up to the developers to create it to please the player base. Nobody is going to enjoy playing the game no matter how the game suits them and not others. The only thing to focus on in balancing this game is single and AE damage, CC's, gap closers, and survival skills. They are all skills owned by the player. Other games were hard to balance because of skills borne of other players cast on you among other things.

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Eloquent but reads like an online WIKI encyclopedia. These things you state are already known. For example, this comparison between structured and unstructured PvP is obvious. However, this discussion, is not about the current perception you have of the limits of MMO design and people should just accept what's fed to them. Games get better through player feedback. It doesn't matter If they are legit or not, over-emotional or not. They pay the developers to listen and sift through these ideas. You think they don't value our ideas? We are the customers! They work for us. Ever heard of beta testers? Another good example are the add-ons of WOW. players created what was lacking in the game. Some got as popular as the game itself. WOW had to bake it in the game in patched and expansions. Examples are threat meters, item levels, flashing icons for skill and spell procs. The point is, it's counter productive to discourage these discussions.

In conclusion, in PvP or pve in an MMO anything is possible. Its up to the developers to create it to please the player base. Nobody is going to enjoy playing the game no matter how the game suits them and not others. The only thing to focus on in balancing this game is single and AE damage, CC's, gap closers, and survival skills. They are all skills owned by the player. Other games were hard to balance because of skills borne of other players cast on you among other things.

I appreciate the first statement made, I'll take that as a compliment. :P

I'm not sure what you are getting at with this post, but I'm going to assume you're generally discussing the importance of player feedback in making a good balance of PVP systems. Yeah, I can get behind that, and I'm not arguing against feedback. I've alpha and beta tested a few major titles in the past ten years or so, and I absolutely believe players can provide valuable insight that alters the direction of a game in a positive way. This is not really a debatable point, it's just fact that feedback will ultimately produce a better game when properly utilized.

What I don't agree with is listening to people who complain, instead of present quality feedback and insight. There are some attitudes expressed in this thread that discourage the very nature of unstructured PVP; it is not meant to be "fair" or "balanced" because someone wants to run around by themselves and kill everyone in sight. Unstructured PVP has always favored larger coordinated groups, that's why it's called unstructured; you have no rules dictating the size of "teams." You can't just add rules to unstructured PVP; oh, since people are crying about dying by themselves, we're going to make it so only one person can attack you in unstructured world PVP. That completely defeats the purpose of it, and will ultimately kill the enjoyable aspects of it.

The same logic applies to balance feedback; just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean it's ultimately meaningful or best for the game. Oftentimes people will lose to a certain combination or class, then automatically declare it "overpowered" or "imbalanced." Instead of trying the class out or trying to find ways to counter what they just lost to, they will immediately jump on the complaint bandwagon and incessantly whine until something happens. This results in less counter play and innovation, and more developer intervention that fundamentally alters the state of the game's balance. This happens in plenty of games, particularly MOBAs and MMORPGs.

The customer is not always right. I think healthy debate and discussion on updates is great for the community, and I think it also opens up opportunities for people to discover counter play and theorycraft. However, I think a lot of debate becomes destructive quite quickly due to the nature of people wanting their style of play to be "the best." I don't want unstructured PVP gutted because someone cannot fathom that groups perform better in those environments. Nor do I want particular classes or skills nerfed into the ground because people are unwilling to deviate from their particular style of play. I'd rather see a game that encourages counter play and player engagement, not a game that is constantly in flux because of swaying community opinion.

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OWPVP is one that makes me addicted to a games, u feelin like shit when get gangin, then train more and more to fight back :smooth:

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