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7thseeker

Classes Roles

32 posts in this topic

Hello Guyz,

I was looking around for B&S classes. Reading the information around about the classes, I had a personal opinion about their roles.

Destroyer - Best [b]AoE[/b] DPS / Tank (like Aion Gladiator)

Blade Master - Tank

Assassin - Best [b]Single-Target[/b] DPS

Force Master - AoE DPS and Support (Is the Mage)

KFM - Tank

Is my impression wrong?
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From what I understand tanking is directly related to how much damage you can deal, so I would assume that both BM and KFM are the highest single-target DPS. But I'm not 100% on the game's mechanics, so I'm unsure of how threat actually works.
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Classes in this game doesn't have any role.
However the blademaster is able to hold the mob because their skills generate much aggro.
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[quote name='spencerBAXLEY' timestamp='1354026772' post='128080']
From what I understand tanking is directly related to how much damage you can deal, so I would assume that both BM and KFM are the highest single-target DPS. But I'm not 100% on the game's mechanics, so I'm unsure of how threat actually works.
[/quote]

Do you mean, BM and KFM do not have any ability for take agro from a mobs, so they have to do the best DPS on the target for keep the agro? So, what is the goal of the assassin class in party-group?
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[quote name='shayryu' timestamp='1354027974' post='128081']
Classes in this game doesn't have any role.
However the blademaster is able to hold the mob because their skills generate much aggro.
[/quote]

That was the deciding factor for me since I've always thrived at the tank role
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You're quite wrong there, regarding your impression.

Assassin and Force Master are both dps/support classes. Assassin has more single target abilities yes, but also feature tons of AOE abilities. Force Master tend to have better single target abilities than aoe aswell.


Destroyer is tank/support class though not viable for high level raids (or so I'm told) unless ur support.



Blade Master and Kung Fu Master are both tank/dps classes. KFM is a lockdown/counter tank/dps, whereas BM is more bursty with the dps and defensive with the tanking.



Lyn Blade Master is support/dps class.


Summoner is healer/support class. Heals are only for the cat and summoner.



In short:



Tank:
Destroyer

Blade Master

Kung Fu Master



DPS:

Blade Master

Kung Fu Master

Force Master

Assassin

Lyn Blade Master

Support:

Destroyer

Force Master

Assassin

Lyn Blade Master

Summoner


Healing:

Summoner



Note: This is the usual group roles. Summoners have their cats tanking in normal pve, destroyers can do huge damage and so on. Other peoples views may differ, but this is my impression (I play the game at the moment)


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for me tanks only kung fu master , blade master
dps , all classes except summoner ,
support , assassin , destroyer , Lbm ,summoner , force master ,
healing : destroyer , (call me crazy but i see a destroyer use one skill and the party members in rez/die revive with 30 or 40% of their life , of course the destroyer pay like 50% of his life.) i will find the video again and show here xD.
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[quote name='Hisano' timestamp='1354029709' post='128086']
You're quite wrong there, regarding your impression.

Destroyer is tank/support class

but this is my impression (I play the game at the moment)
[/quote]


no u are wrong. destroyers are not built for tanking. destroyers' heal has too much cooldown to keep up with the Boss' damage output.

the only way a destroyer can tank is by kiting. and if the tank is kiting it is a bad tank, this tank just doubled the time they need to take down the boss because all the other melee classes now have to chase the boss and they cannot hit it as easily. the only time a destroyer can be a good tank is if he parties with Force Masters only.
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I don´t think it´s reasonable to define a Summoner as a heal/support class because with this description one could think his/hers role in party play would be include healing but this is wrong. Every class is able to heal him/herself (at least with gem) but summoner excels in this area, that´s the only big difference between summoner heal abilities and the heal possiblities other classes. The damage of Summoner can´t match that of other classes but is still quite strong. One must not forget that the posion stacks of the summoner are different with the stacks of the assassin. The cat add some additional damage that shouldn´t be ignored.
Summoner is dot damage with very impressive cc-abilities. Summoner hide, lifeleech, fire and posion dots and root (works on bosses too) gives Summoner both a decent punch as wonderful cc-abilities / survivability in pve and pvp. It seems (like in every mmo there are always underestimated classes) many ppl in korea are just too incomptent to play their summoner well...

Every class in BnS is dps...and every class is support as control as well. Some classes excels more in one area than other classes. Otherwise it wouldn´t be possible to clear mushin tower if a class is more restricted to support.

Regarding BM: A tank-bm is a dps-bm too because afaik there are no aggroskills like "spotting" like in other mmos. Bm holds aggro with dps. Every bm becomes a perfect tank if he speecs roundslash and every good dps bm specc roundslash too because dps stance is quickdrawstance and every hit consumes a chi.

And DayBreeze is right, Destroy generally is not a good tank. And what are highlevel raids? There are no highlevel raids in this game, you can´t really say Powahran 24 is a raid, cos every boss there can easily be duoed... Edited by Janshi
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Here are the current Class Rolls as follows:

Blademaster: Main Tank, Damage Dealer (Only truely good when being used as a tank tho!) As Janshi has mentioned, he needs good damage to keep aggro from other players as there are no aggro skills.

Assassin: Good DPS but not highest, mainly taken for Bleeding (reduced healing) and Smoke Bomb

Kung Fu Master: Together with Forcemaster highest Boss DPS, can tank Bosses.

Forcemaster: PewPew highest DPS together with KFM

Summoner: Support DPS/Tank class. The Cat can tank certain bosses but definitly not all. A summoner makes a lot of things in your group easier.

Destroyer: Support, subDPS. Mainly taken for the Stun/Knockdown into Pick-Up into throw-up combo. Free DPS and Chi regerneration. Especially poten with a KFM in your group as he can mount the target with an Air combo.

Lyn Blademaster: Support, higher DPS then Destroyer. Similar to Destroyer, the LBM has a Pick-Up where people can free DPS while regenerating Chi, but it is lacking the throw up in the air and does not posses as many CC capabilities as the Destroyer has.


Please consider that I have left out the support skills that nearly every class offers to the group and that those are just the general rules of the classes in dungeon groupplay. Edited by Aari
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I have played on the Korean servers with a FM and a lyn BM for a while and here's my impression...

BM - Main tank/DPS
Hands down the best/easiest class to tank. They have resists, dodges, and a spammable guard to withstand the heavy blows while having decent amount of cc and dps. They also have skills that increase aggro (learned through the talent tree). They also have a bleed skill. (bleed lowers hp regen. important in pve. endgame bosses regen about 3k health per tick)

KFM - Tank/DPS
A bit harder to tank than BMs but still doable. They have spammable counters. Depending on how you build them they can also be one of the highest dps class. They can also bleed the target but it's not that efficient.

Destroyer - Support
They may have high base defense but they the main reason they popular in parties is because of their grab move and cc moves. When a cc'ed target is grabbed, the target is immobile for about 6 seconds. When party members attack the target with any skill they regen their chi. In other words, all other party members bring out the big guns for FREE DAMAGE. This is pretty important especially when there is a rage/wipe timer. Grab has about 18sec cd. They can't tank because they don't have enough survival skills. They don't even have a backstep ss.

FM - PURE DPS/support/ranged tank
My current main class. Arguably the highest DPS class in the game with decent utility. Basically 2-left click-2-left click-2-left click-1-repeat. (but don't actually do this when you are not tanking... guaranteed aggro and raging party members) The dps is so high that ppl actually has to control their dmg output for most of the fight in boss battles. They are a glass cannon with lower base defense and health with fewer survivability skills than other classes though. They also bring a bit of utility to the team with their ice flower (gives all teammates within 30m a buff that freezes them when they get hit and negate damage. buff only last 3 seconds so time it well) or force field (all members in the field resists ranged attacks. field lasts 10 seconds but you cannot do anything before with skill ends or cancelled). They can also tank in some situations. (e.g FM tanking is favored vs Pohwaran because she uses her ranged pattern instead of the melee pattern)

Assassin - DPS/Support maybe?
One of the least popular class in pve but one of the best in pvp. In pvp they don't do much apart from maintaining 5 stacks of bleed with their throwing knives and deal decent dps. Honestly I can say much since I haven't played with them often.

Summoner - Tank/support?
Arguably the worst class in pve and the least popular. Summoners can only heal the cat and itself. The cat can tank but limited to the heals from the summoner. (the heals to the cat cost 20% of the summoner's own health). They also have a few supports skill that functions similar to FMs ice flower (dandelion) and force field (pollen). Since most of their skills and damage output heavily depend on their cat they become near useless when the cat dies.

Lyn BM aka the Yoda class (yes it's an entirely different class) - Sub Tank/DPS/Support
This is my alt class I'm trying out. Due to the popularity of lyns and because it's a new class, the servers are overloaded with them though...
They look like a BM + FM hybrid, but they are more of a BM + destroyer hybrid. Ranged destroyer grab (with chi regen effect), spin to win like a destroyer, and have some similar skill sets with BMs. They can be the main tank using their spammable blocks, resist, and dodge moves but their lower base defense and health makes that a bit difficult (not impossible though). Their damage output is just decent. Their dps will only truly shine when there is another lyn BM or a destroyer in the party to use grab. (When that happens use q+infinite right clicks). They can also bleed the target when built correctly.
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As a Destroyer player, I have to disagree with those who say we can't tank. We can tank, we got skills that increases aggro and our tornado increases 400% def, and we definitely have ss(what ver. of BnS are you playing that Destroyer doesn't has ss?). We might not tank as well as BM due to less efficient lifesteal skills but I think it all boils down to the skill build and the bopae equipped.
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There are no real class roles, because all classes are multi rolled. With different stats ofc
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[quote name='Mutsugami' timestamp='1389624574' post='251767']
As a Destroyer player, I have to disagree with those who say we can't tank. We can tank, we got skills that increases aggro and our tornado increases 400% def, and we definitely have ss(what ver. of BnS are you playing that Destroyer doesn't has ss?). We might not tank as well as BM due to less efficient lifesteal skills but I think it all boils down to the skill build and the bopae equipped.
[/quote]

You posted on a thread where the last post was made on Dec 03, 2012. At that time the Destroyer class had no backstep (SS) move. I agree you can tank with a Destroyer, you can even tank with a FM. Like many others already said, there are no real class roles, you can say the BM is the maintank but you can also do a Dungeon with 4 / 6 LBM and it still would work out.

The upper post are more like to see where their strength lies (even tho they are not up to date). Edited by BirdOfHermes
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If BM is the tank class and they tank by dealing the most damage because there's no aggro skill, then what use are the other dps classes like assassin/FM. Why not bring more BMs.
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KFM is more solo than tank. It has enough invulnerability skills and can kill bosses by just using block repeatedly.
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[quote name='astrohawke' timestamp='1389708055' post='253066']
If BM is the tank class and they tank by dealing the most damage because there's no aggro skill, then what use are the other dps classes like assassin/FM. Why not bring more BMs.
[/quote]


because not every NPC fight is a boss fight.
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[quote name='DayBreeze' timestamp='1389734573' post='253444']
because not every NPC fight is a boss fight.
[/quote]

Boss fights are what matters though. You can basically do anything to trash mobs. LBMs can also spec to aoe if that matters.

It's just funny because if you consider the holy trinity of tank, healer and dps in standard MMOs, in this game there's no healer and 1 class is both the tank and top DPS. I guess you throw in LBM/Destroyer for alternating CC and spin2win aoe plus 2 BMs and you have ideal party.

Classes like KFM and assassin especially just don't seem to have a role in parties or just fill in as inferior single target dps. Summoner too, not sure what exactly they do in parties except maybe have pet off tank in some cases. At least assassins dominate PvP and so can summoners I've heard. What do KFMs excel at? At one time they were also good in PvP, now they're just hard to play with little benefit to show for it.
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The roles can be anything, like destroyer can be a SUP, Tank and AOE DPS. Coz' their has different skill trees. And also assassin can be AOE DPS . lol
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[quote name='astrohawke' timestamp='1389753259' post='253897'] What do KFMs excel at?
[/quote]
CC. They have 1 aoe knockdown, 2 aoe stuns (1 is originally specced as a knockback, while the other can be specced into an aoe heal), 1 single target knockdown, 1 aoe knockup, 1 single target root that also doubles as an aoe shield. I'm probably missing a couple. Just because they don't give free chi when they hold a target doesn't mean they're not cc masters.

If you have a couple ranged attacking you as kfm and you have good evasion, the boss can stay down indefinitely since the single target kd has no cd. Edited by GundamIt
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[quote name='astrohawke' timestamp='1389753259' post='253897']
Boss fights are what matters though. You can basically do anything to trash mobs. LBMs can also spec to aoe if that matters.

It's just funny because if you consider the holy trinity of tank, healer and dps in standard MMOs, in this game there's no healer and 1 class is both the tank and top DPS. I guess you throw in LBM/Destroyer for alternating CC and spin2win aoe plus 2 BMs and you have ideal party.

Classes like KFM and assassin especially just don't seem to have a role in parties or just fill in as inferior single target dps. Summoner too, not sure what exactly they do in parties except maybe have pet off tank in some cases. At least assassins dominate PvP and so can summoners I've heard. What do KFMs excel at? At one time they were also good in PvP, now they're just hard to play with little benefit to show for it.
[/quote]


blademasters tanking needs skill, just because the class can do it does not mean all players using it can pull it off. many time i seen blademasters get crushed in a boss fight. i have had my share of experiences carrying the team through boss fights, and that's with me dealing with my foreigner 230 - 260 ping while the Chinese locals with perfect ping are getting stomped. blademasters tanking needs you to be able to time your block for perfect block (0.5 seconds) and capitalize on the energy rush. timing your invincibility frames for the bosses' AOEs watching every frame of the bosses' movements......

KFM are just as good for tanking as blades. their DPS is only slightly behind blademasters'. i don't get how you think KFM are useless. in a DPS race blademaster wins, yes, but KFM is close behind.

Destroyers are highly useful in dungeons. anytime i have to choose taking LBM or destroyers i take destroyers through hte dungeons LBM are just the squishier version of destroyers. so yea i take destroyers over LBMs to dungeons.

what assassins bring for the parties is poison. stacking up the poison makes boss fights finish faster. other than poison they just assist in whatever CC on the boss. the land mine trip is useful, because it takes time to set up the whole team can see it and get ready to use the trip skill. not the most wanted class in dungeon parties but the smarter assassins do good. as long as the assassin knows it is there to assist and not try to be flashy in there it is good

FMs have their umbrella for the team. useful in lvl 36 purple dungeon. other than the good DPS and umbrella they are not so wanted.

summoners? same as FM. the smoke assist the team and the DPS is good. but too squishy, dies too fast and too often.

if you want to time trial a boss you take a full team of blades. but not every player has the skill to handle mastering a blade. and not everyone has the guts to play a melee class, so we have many classes for different players, not everyone plays to time trial a boss.
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[quote name='astrohawke' timestamp='1389708055' post='253066']
If BM is the tank class and they tank by dealing the most damage because there's no aggro skill, then what use are the other dps classes like assassin/FM. Why not bring more BMs.
[/quote]

DPS wise is FM the strongest and nearly on par is the KFM.


[quote name='GundamIt' timestamp='1389755224' post='253954']
CC. They have 1 aoe knockdown, 2 aoe stuns (1 is originally specced as a knockback, while the other can be specced into an aoe heal), 1 single target knockdown, 1 aoe knockup, 1 single target root that also doubles as an aoe shield. I'm probably missing a couple. Just because they don't give free chi when they hold a target doesn't mean they're not cc masters.

If you have a couple ranged attacking you as kfm and you have good evasion, the boss can stay down indefinitely since the single target kd has no cd.
[/quote]

The role of a KFM in a party is never CC, that is always the role of a Destroyer or LBM.
KFM belong to one of the highest dps classes in BnS, your role is to dps the shit out of the boss, semi tanking (in a matter of 2 bosses at the same time you take the role of the off tank if there is no other class open for that role) and party iframe (freeze) to survive major atks from bosses.

#########################################################

Every class has it's purpose and benefit in a group.
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[quote name='DayBreeze' timestamp='1389755539' post='253963']
blademasters tanking needs skill, just because the class can do it does not mean all players using it can pull it off. many time i seen blademasters get crushed in a boss fight. i have had my share of experiences carrying the team through boss fights, and that's with me dealing with my foreigner 230 - 260 ping while the Chinese locals with perfect ping are getting stomped. blademasters tanking needs you to be able to time your block for perfect block (0.5 seconds) and capitalize on the energy rush. timing your invincibility frames for the bosses' AOEs watching every frame of the bosses' movements......

KFM are just as good for tanking as blades. their DPS is only slightly behind blademasters'. i don't get how you think KFM are useless. in a DPS race blademaster wins, yes, but KFM is close behind.[/quote]

BM tanking takes skill but it's not like KFM is sitting there face tanking either. They also take skill. Arguably KFM is harder to play than BM. Assuming both are competent players, the BM is the better tank and dps. I'm not saying KFMs are useless but rather they just have no niche. Some aspect of the game where they excel more than other classes. Currently, they are outclassed in just about everything they do by someone else whether it's PvE or PvP. The only reason to play one is if you enjoy their playstyle, which is a perfectly okay reason.

[quote]Destroyers are highly useful in dungeons. anytime i have to choose taking LBM or destroyers i take destroyers through hte dungeons LBM are just the squishier version of destroyers. so yea i take destroyers over LBMs to dungeons.[/quote]

Destroyers are more tanky based on stats. LBMs have a ton of iframes on their skills. Considering neither should be tanking the boss, it really doesn't matter so much. LBMs can take some hits. Destroyers can take more hits. If there ever comes a time in the future where it's hard to tank hits and survive even for destroyers, LBMs would be more survivable. Right now, I probably would take destroyers too if only because they're more forgiving if you're eating attacks due to low skill/high ping.

[quote]what assassins bring for the parties is poison. stacking up the poison makes boss fights finish faster. other than poison they just assist in whatever CC on the boss. the land mine trip is useful, because it takes time to set up the whole team can see it and get ready to use the trip skill. not the most wanted class in dungeon parties but the smarter assassins do good. as long as the assassin knows it is there to assist and not try to be flashy in there it is good

FMs have their umbrella for the team. useful in lvl 36 purple dungeon. other than the good DPS and umbrella they are not so wanted.

summoners? same as FM. the smoke assist the team and the DPS is good. but too squishy, dies too fast and too often.

if you want to time trial a boss you take a full team of blades. but not every player has the skill to handle mastering a blade. and not everyone has the guts to play a melee class, so we have many classes for different players, not everyone plays to time trial a boss.
[/quote]

Of course every class can do the job and beat a dungeon. I mean if you have a class with no skills and just LB auto attacks, chances are they can still beat dungeons with the other 3/5 players. That's not the issue though. It's about class niches and in what areas they excel more than other classes. You can say assassins bring poison. That's great but poison falls under DPS. The question is not whether assassins can bring poison therefore they're worth bringing because no one else can poison the boss; it's whether having poison is better than having another BM to do more DPS. Same applies to summoners and smoke or FMs and umbrella. Every class has some unique skill that can contribute something but is what they contribute better than what another class can contribute in the same slot.

[quote name='BirdOfHermes' timestamp='1389759397' post='254056']
DPS wise is FM the strongest and nearly on par is the KFM.
[/quote]

If FM/KFM have highest DPS and aggro is determined by who's doing the most DPS, then wouldn't they be tanking and not the BM? Makes no sense Edited by astrohawke
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[quote name='astrohawke' timestamp='1389760203' post='254083']
If FM/KFM have highest DPS and aggro is determined by who's doing the most DPS, then wouldn't they be tanking and not the BM? Makes no sense
[/quote]

There lies your mistake. The aggro system is not that simple, even if you do the same amount of dmg or even more the enemy will not instantly switch to you.
As far as I remember there are 3 skills that increases the aggro on the BM and the highest "burst" dmg has the BM (not the highest DPS)
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I don't know about CN but in KR, KFM has the highest dps by far.

KFMs will almost always take the aggro from BMs even when their weapon is one grade lower.
BMs dps is even lower than that of LBMs now after LBM buff.

DPS wise it's really...
KFM>>>>>>>Des/LBM>FM/BM>>Sum/Sin


Also, BMs don't run aggro stab/spin slash in their builds because there is a major drop in dps.
Ironically what's more is that KFMs can use aggro 2 punch without affecting their dps.


It may not matter in CN, but in KR, after White-blue Mountains, bosses' enrage timers becomes really tight making dps mean everything.
It also mean Summoners/Assassins (and LBMs before buff) usually gets kicked out of parties.
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