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Mizuki

Is class balance a concern for the Korean players?

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I'm not sure how it is in Korea but if someone out dps's or does an overly amount of damage to another person in the US they take it to the forums and cry about it making the devs nerf said class. Star Wars the Old Republic is a great example, the team came out and said all classes are well balanced and everyone has a fair chance in a fight, well that was bs because the Imperial Agent's Operative spec was tearing people a new one in their battlegrounds called warzones. Other players cried about it on the official forums, next thing we know the Operative specs skills get a HUGE nerf that people actually switched to healing, it was dumb.

So with Korea, are people actually whiny and react the same way or do they just play said overpowered class and all you see is said class running around.

I think what will be done for the US is they're going to actually tune the damage classes do so one isn't more overpowered than the other, who wants to play a weak class, NO ONE.

Edited by Mizuki
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in my pov and with the people who i played other games such lineage 2, they simple adapt or change class, they are most focused to the game keep them busy and giving them a reason to log in, they do everything from grind to pvp, but i remember playing with some in my old lineage 2 alliance, and sometimes they wanted just grind other times they wanted just look for pvp, either clan war or just ganks.

of course if something is clearly unbalanced in everyone eyes, even developers, they will ask for a solution.

ill tell you another thing for sure which is already proved not by me...NA is a bitching place, Europeans adapt, Russians do the same, even aussies, the ammount of people who might bitch from those regions is a lot smaller or doesnt exist, even brazilians or south american.

south america for example is more concerned to the game being fair...this means no cheats, no bots, no hack, no pay to win.

summary the only reason why you find those posts only in NA is because that, is a bitch region which want the stuff to be in the way they want and for make it even worse they like spoon-feed and their jealousy for pixels is so big too.

sorry but is the reality, of course theres exceptions.

Edited by JemL
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Yeah I agree with you, it's a reason why I'm a huge fan of single player games as well. I personally adapt, I hate whining cause I think there's a better way unless there's a big problem that needs to be addressed but in this case with class balance people just cry way too much.

I hate it when I see those threads because a developer may not actually want to make the change but to be competitive in the MMO scene they'll succumb to the whiners

What I'm hoping for with Blade and Soul is that it's not marketed as a competitive game , I don't want to see articles that say come play Blade and Soul instead of TERA or Guild Wars 2 and here's why. I'd rather see come play Blade and Soul for it's rich Asian culture that you won't find in any other MMO, compelling storyline rich characters and exceptional original soundtrack

I believe TERA's angle was true combat which is true so I hope NcSoft finds something unique to Blade and Soul and uses that for marketing to keep the WoW trolls away

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i would have to agree with the NA people being quite whiny and tend to complain more than other areas but it's all how to react to things that happen. i suppose its just that more people are willing to jump on negative things and scream OP or hack before they are willing to believe something is better than them. an honest beat down in player vs player is very different from a random one-shot kill but very few people would scream that kind of stuff if it was them dishing out the beat down right? who wants to play a weak class, a lot of people view the healers as being a weak class but there are still plenty of people playing healers right? healer classes are famous for being light on the damage and high on the survival. blade & soul is a new beast where there are no healers and everyone is damage. in any mmo, gear is going to be a factor so no sense in pointing it out but i would confidently say, blade & soul depends more on player skill than any other mmo out there unless there is a huge difference in player level, there shouldn't be too much of a concern for OP. on the asian player vs western player subject, specially South Korean players, South Korea is unofficially the MMO mecca so players are going to be more interested in the game and playing than screaming for changes and re-balances unless its something really unfair or unbalanced. so at the end of the day, you judge for yourself how things are, you can get mad that someone is kicking your butt in pvp and call them OP or a hacker and spam the forums or you can find a way around it and enjoy the game but most of the time, you wouldn't care about it if you are the one doing it to someone else. not to say that you aren't entitle to voice your opinion but just don't jump to conclusions that someone is cheating, the class is OP, or something is unbalanced because you got your butt kicked in pvp. that being said, i'm sure Korean blade & soul being out for 4-5 months and the popularity of it, players have most likely found many of the unbalanced situations and the developers have fixed them by now, so don't worry, have some faith ^_^

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People will complain the moment they lose, regardless if classes are OP or not. When it comes to swtor, they didn't do any efforts to balance classes before release, so the balancing happened after release. Operative/scoundrel had crazy bursts, same thing with one of the trooper classes, and that burst got nerfed. Bioware used a chainsaw instead of a scalpel, which neutered operatives. To blame players that OP abilities got nerfed is BS.

The saying that europeans don't complain is a numbers game. There are more americans playing games than europeans, and the french and german players use their own language. Then you have the europeans who have bad english, which remove even more people. In the end you have 4 times as many NA-players compared to eu-english players, and 400 people sounds a lot more than 100 people.

If you don't balance classes after release you will end up having people playing permanent FOTM classes and the people that don't reroll will quit. Noone will stick to a class that is clearly inferior.

Edited by Shaigh
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from what i played on the KR servers the game is pretty balanced and this is one game where timing and skill is crucial i really hope if ppl do start whining about stuff that they ignore them, im tired of seeing games go easy mode because ppl cant accept that someone was better than them. There is always a way to win no matter what learn to use tactics instead of just rushing, and like i love to say to whiners when i beat them "learn2playurclass"

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Im just ready to smash faces on NA server since KR has that lag that makes you move slower

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Rule 1: If the class is considered numerically superior to other classes, it will be the most popular.

It doesn't matter if it's true or not. It doesn't matter if it's only better by a fraction of a percent. PvPers will see this as having the edge. PvEers will see it as being the best. Is it the majority? Maybe not. Is it one of the most vocal groups in the MMO? Yes.

Rule 2: If someone loses in PvP, it's because the opponent is OPed, or the lack of balance.

It can be the most balanced game in the world. It doesn't matter.

Class 1 can be better than Class 2 by 1%

Class 2 can be better than Class 3-5 by 1%

Class 3-5 can be better than Class 6 by 1%

That's a difference of 3% from Class 1 to Class 6. That 3% can be almost impossibl to detect. People will complain Class 6 is underpowered and Class 1 is overpowered, just because Class 1 is better than Class 6.

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We also have to understand that a lot of mmorpg players are more into pve than pvp so as long as pvp isn't forced upon the players in B&S the pvp complaints won't hold B&S back. PVP in B&S is there and there are things you can't get without participating on it like emotes and Qing Gong ablities but from my experience the pvp won't be the determining factor for B&S. The pve will in the end be what makes/breaks B&S.

This is partially my pve bias speaking.

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We also have to understand that a lot of mmorpg players are more into pve than pvp so as long as pvp isn't forced upon the players in B&S the pvp complaints won't hold B&S back. PVP in B&S is there and there are things you can't get without participating on it like emotes and Qing Gong ablities but from my experience the pvp won't be the determining factor for B&S. The pve will in the end be what makes/breaks B&S.

This is partially my pve bias speaking.

But the Qing Gong abilities are pretty low rank, right? From what I understood you could get them pretty easily from just killing the NPCs. Of course it'll be hard NOT to be forced into a PVP situation when the game is first released and everyone is in that area together. XD

But I definitely agree with you. I'm the type that has to have both in order to have a game keep my attention. I can't do JUST PVE or JUST PVP or I'll get burnt out really quickly. I've got to be entertained by both.

But from the looks of it, there's quite a bit to do on both sides—especially when they release that battleground mechanic. :)

Oh man, can I just have this game already... SO BORED.

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as far as i know, there were recent pvp tournaments that had takened place in different KR servers, and one of the outcome was a normally said broken class summoner taking the win.

as previously been mentioned. bns is about timing. class balance or items comes after.

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If B&S limits combat logging like TERA does, it will minimize the "bitching" because there are no metrics to prove it or advocate it like it does in WOW. However, the word "bitching" is the wrong term to use when the complaint is legitimate. But the internet is full of self-induced propagandists, lol! They will lump all legit and non-legit complaints together because they are too lazy to separate and enjoy the propaganda it creates in the forums. Balance is a requirement for any game that has PVP options. If the developers don't respond to legitimate complaints, they are failures and/or just have short term goals which seem to be the dominant business model for Korean game developers. Too sad, really...

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Also, keep in mind that during the 7 waves patch, B&S will be seeing the addition of a 1v1 arena system. That system will make it pretty clear if there are any major class balance issues, and presumably the devs will tweak here and there if it turns out that certain classes simply aren't competitive in that environment.

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Also, keep in mind that during the 7 waves patch, B&S will be seeing the addition of a 1v1 arena system. That system will make it pretty clear if there are any major class balance issues, and presumably the devs will tweak here and there if it turns out that certain classes simply aren't competitive in that environment.

Ahh nice! that's going to be awwwwesome

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Also, keep in mind that during the 7 waves patch, B&S will be seeing the addition of a 1v1 arena system. That system will make it pretty clear if there are any major class balance issues, and presumably the devs will tweak here and there if it turns out that certain classes simply aren't competitive in that environment.

It will not make clear anything. Overall put 1v1 in MMO is stupidity idea , because that is MMO. Balance for 1v1 and in 30+vs30+ BG will never be the same. Game must have focus for one type of PvP. If developers try to make 1v1 area and so huge BG it means they completly do not care about class balance in game. If you make class blance for 1v1, some classes will be completly OP in mass PvP. And viceversa, if balance will be for mass PvP then some class going to massacre others in 1v1.

Edited by Zenek
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It will not make clear anything. Overall put 1v1 in MMO is stupidity idea , because that is MMO. Balance for 1v1 and in 30+vs30+ BG will never be the same. Game must have focus for one type of PvP. If developers try to make 1v1 area and so huge BG it means they completly do not care about class balance in game. If you make class blance for 1v1, some classes will be completly OP in mass PvP. And viceversa, if balance will be for mass PvP then some class going to massacre others in 1v1.

I fail to see why balancing for 1 v 1 prevents balancing for 30 v 30. A skill that makes you overpowered against a group wouldn't be used in 1v1, so it wouldn't be caught by teh 1v1 arena testing, but there i can't think of a reason said hypothetical ability couldn't be tested and tweaked in the 30 v 30 arena.

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I fail to see why balancing for 1 v 1 prevents balancing for 30 v 30.

Effectivity of some skills growing directly proportional to the number of ppl in PvP. The main example are range and AoE skills. Also characters what do not have range skills are much more exposed to take DMG than others because of positioning.

That is mainly strategy issue, so I think example from RTS should explain this mechanism:

In Starcraft if you send 1 zerling on 1 marine - zerling will win.

But if you will send 10 zerlings on 10 marines - marines will win because of advantage from range attacks, even if in 1v1 zerling is stronger.

I think I do not have to explains AoE issue.

Ofc MMO balance is alot more complicated because of tons of classes abilities. But overall strategic advantage work by the same way and completly prevent balancing for both: 1v1 and 30vs30 at same time.

Edited by Zenek
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The main problem with MMO balance is indeed balancing it between 1v1 and MvM ( many versus many). It's ultra hard to obtain this balance with healers. I'm not going to explain why since it's obvious why. But since B&S don't have healers, it should be simpler. If you are going to give AE damage, give it to all and make sure the overall damage is the same in the same time span. I say that because dps burst is a huge factor in PvP. Range kiting is also worth the attention. If there is range kiting, give melee gap closer skills which I believe blade masters already have.

edit: Just wanted to add to the range kiting point. Don't give the melee an OP range damage skill like the idiotic Slayers have in TERA. How stupid is that? Pretty much ultra stupid. But I will give Blue Hole a 3 out of 5 stars since they are beginners. NC Soft does not have the luxury of owning such an excuse.

Edited by Nique no Nihonto
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As long as there isn't any 1-hit KO wonder moves, and skills of their ilk, out there I don't give a crap. I don't care how lengthy the CD were to be if they were to be implemented; but that kind of stuff WILL make me quit. As for one class being perceived as weaker or stronger I care not. I play whatever that is that takes my fancy then of the time; I'm no class turncoat. Feel > slight discrepancies in relative power level. I stuck with a crazy UP in a certain MMO for 4 years, until by that time my patience was rewarded and it was redone. I liked the class concept too much to give up on it, even if my resolve about it threatened to crumble at times. Queerly enough, they remained pretty much joint rarest class played even though they were immensely powerful with that rebalance; well imo... so it's kind of weird how it never became a FotM kinda deal.

I agree with the thing about healers, that's why I'm glad they're gone in this game... their power level relative to what they're expected to output during PvE instances (healing to account for hits that drain's a tank's health by 80% in one strike) vs PvP; never mind just 1vs1 or ManyvsMany. They've consistently put a spanner in the works when it came to balancing them in PvP environments...

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The main problem with MMO balance is indeed balancing it between 1v1 and MvM ( many versus many). It's ultra hard to obtain this balance with healers. I'm not going to explain why since it's obvious why. But since B&S don't have healers, it should be simpler. If you are going to give AE damage, give it to all and make sure the overall damage is the same in the same time span. I say that because dps burst is a huge factor in PvP. Range kiting is also worth the attention. If there is range kiting, give melee gap closer skills which I believe blade masters already have.

edit: Just wanted to add to the range kiting point. Don't give the melee an OP range damage skill like the idiotic Slayers have in TERA. How stupid is that? Pretty much ultra stupid. But I will give Blue Hole a 3 out of 5 stars since they are beginners. NC Soft does not have the luxury of owning such an excuse.

KFMs and assassins have gap closers too, so I think all melee classes have them. There's also a min range for KFMs so you'd have to know their range to kite them, which is where skill comes into play. Not so sure about BM and Sin ranges, though.

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Something what you said means KFM can do nothing with kitter who just keep correct distance. In situation like that I do not see skill, just abuse system. From something what you said means a broken system. The worst of all it is about 1v1, so this is even worst in mass PvP.

But gap closers is one thing, positioning is second one. Gap closers, in mass PvP do not fix fact melee are much more exposed to be attacked than range who just spam from range.

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KFM has 3 gap closer skills.

2 are learned in early levels, adds battle energy, the 3rd is a 4 hit skill.

the 1st, i call pounce, you must be more than a certain distance away to use. from what i remember the other 2 can be used from point blank and far away.

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KFM has 3 gap closer skills.

2 are learned in early levels, adds battle energy, the 3rd is a 4 hit skill.

the 1st, i call pounce, you must be more than a certain distance away to use. from what i remember the other 2 can be used from point blank and far away.

Alright there we go, thank you.

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